[Ian_Giles]

Colin,
If you have done the job properly you will have at least equalled anything you could have done with trad methods, and providing you have adapted and adjusted the way in which you work, you will be considerably quicker too.

Window cleaners who use ladders will gradually find themselves squeezed out (any trade that uses ladders) You may only be spending a minute or two up the ladder cleaning a window, but you are doing it day in, day out, your job is working off ladders full time, The new regs will most certainly apply to you. Part of the regs say that if there is any other way of doing whatever job it is that needs doing that can avoid the use of a ladder then it must be used.
Ladders are the final option.
With window cleaning you do have an option, WFP or using poles with applicators and squeegees.

It won't really affect those doing domestic houses in the short term, lets face it, how many health and safety inspectors are going to trawl around housing estates looking for window cleaners up a a ladder
But it will come in time.

Ian

[Craig_Mawlam]

It's interesting that since Ionic introduced The Reach & Wash™ System in 1997 approximately 100 window cleaners have lost their lives falling from ladders and 1,000's of others have been injured. During that time ZERO window cleaners have died using waterfed poles.

The WAHD does NOT ban the use of ladders but is does say that you should select the SAFEST system of work! QED you may continue to use ladders if you wish, but if you employ others and they fall from a ladder you can guarantee that the compensation lawyers will use the WAHD to good effect in order to maximise the payout to the bereaved family. Meanwhile the HSE will use the Directive to prosecute you because clearly you failed to select the safest system of work.

Craig Mawlam

[Colin_Glenn]

All fair comments. 

[freshas]

could public liability insurance be classed as void  if ladders
fell on a parked car , maybe they would wriggle out payments
on the ground of a ladder ban

[AuRavelling79]

Or .... even if the use of ladders is a not banned and the insurance company says "Why didn't you use a pole as it would have been safer?" They might argue that one if you maim somebody and they want to wriggle out of a £500,000 payout!

Insurance company not pay out? Never! :

[Colin_Glenn]

Well as Craig said,  "since Ionic introduced The Reach & Wash™ System in 1997 approximately 100 window cleaners have lost their lives falling from ladders and 1,000's of others have been injured. During that time ZERO window cleaners have died using waterfed poles."

I have to admit that when I get home late these days my wife never phones up worrying about me as she used to do when I was up ladders all day. A couple of months ago I got into the house nearly 2 hours late as I was in the Garage fixing a few little things and forgot to say anything to her. When I got in she was fine. In the past she would have been worried sick.

It's worth the money for the peace of mind. Even still, I still think we have to be careful about making statements until we are certain of our facts (Like when 19th July 2004 was supposed to be "Burn your ladders" day.)

Colin

[Ian_Giles]

I don't think my CD re-writer could handle that

Ian

[Roy Harding]

I have been cleaning 20yrs with out miss-hap.  But I have five friends that have fallen badly. 3 of wich smashed their heels, and had to have them rebuilt, ending their window cleaning.   Another landed on his head and was left in a coma for a week and brain damage . And one who broke his legs. . Have you fallen or very close? and how bad?

[CRAIG LIND]

Had a fall 02/02/05, put my ladder up against the house, i got to the top, just started to squeege, felt the ladder slip a little. I thought i should get down and move the ladder, but that was it, the ladder just slipped right out from underneath me, luckily i landed on top of the ladder still on my feet. It shook me up a little but has made me more cautious,( WET ALGIE PATIO)

[CRAIG LIND]

CAN ANYONE TELL ME, WHAT THE NEW GUIDELINES ARE FOR WINDOW CLEANERS USING LADDERS?IS THE LAW IN PLACE? IF SO WHEN DID OR  DOES IT START, AND WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS.?

[Roy Harding]

I Spray with a trigger spray patio cleanner it lasts about 2yrs.

[Roy Harding]

Have a look at this HSE sheet 3 http://www.nfmwgc.com/homepgs/links.htm 

[matt]

this thread is all you need to read to "go down the WFP route"

talk of coma's and brain damage, not for me thanks big man

[Duke]

my 'boss'...lol....last year, ladders, wet decking...slipped, fell on top of ladder...7 stitches in chin...(still went back to work though, after, same day...)....he uses a pole now......odd that....

[karlosdaze]

Funny you should mention the falling. I just had a pair of steps collapse on me, - they just broke at the joints, and brand new as well. I'm off to trading standards to get them withdrawn from the marketplace.

[Tim Downer]

Hi,
 Get the new "Professional Window Cleaner" magazine, first issue came to the office today!!
Page 27 - 31 has a lot of detail and explanations on the Temporary Work at Height Directive....
May have it on their web site: www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk ??

Regards

Tim Downer

[Tim Downer]

Also, try: www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

Tim

[martin19842]

tim,

its not on the pwc website, can you do me a favour,

read-it

and then type it onto here,

ONLY JOKING 

have registered on the site and it will be in the post shortly.

i must go and clean out the back of my L200, you cant moan at the staff if your own vehicle is messy, or as i say i'm the boss, so clean mione out as well.

take care

regards


martin

[Ian_Giles]

I've fallen so often I've got really good at it

But seriously, over 30 years of working off ladders I have only had a handful of accidents, almost all very minor, the worst while window cleaning was while cleaning a Kwik Save sign and the ladder (even though set very steep) went from under me. I was lucky, the ladder went straight down and I wasn't leaning to one side, my feet went either side of the ladder, I bruised my heels, and scared the crap out of a baker who was supping a cup of tea while sat on the window sill about 6 ft to the one side
Went down with a hell of a bang, felt a real tit too I grinned sheepishly at the baker whose mouth was wide open, made an apologetic sign to the driver of the vehicle that had swerved to avoid the ladder that had shot out in front of his car, put the ladder back up and carried on working
By the time I had finished the sign I couldn't put any weight on either of my heels, spent the rest of the day mincing around like a teapot on my tippy toes

Had to have the next three days off work, was just to painful to walk But I was really lucky that was all the damage I had.

Another local window cleaner had the same type of accident (you know him Roy, Simon Glendenning)
He was doing a window above a patio when the ladder went from under him, but his foot went between the rungs and he broke his ankle in two places Customer wasn't in either...which was nice

I have had the ladder slip from under me only to 'catch' on the edge of a paving slab, so it only fell about a foot below the window sill. It happens so fast, it isn't until you walk down the ladder that you start to choke on the heart that has shot into your mouth
I had one guy working for me, everytime I called on him to see how he was doing, it seemed he was always prostrate on his back making strange groaning noises he'd slipped of a roof, had the ladder slip on guttering, overstretched himself, and those are only the times I caught him
When I was a decorator I was painting a window in a council depot garage, there was a guy doing the window next to me, his feet were no more than 4ft of the ground. We were using white gloss at the time, I glanced across to him and told him his ladder looked to far out at the bottom, then it went out from under him.
He was a fat lad and as he fell forward his face smashed into the wall beneath the window, when he hit the deck it he landed on all fours, he shattered one kneecap and broke his wrists, and there was blood everywhere where his mouth and nose had smashed into the wall.
Bear in mind he only fell about 4ft, maximum.

Work off ladders again?...............No thank you.

Mind how you go,

Ian

[Mr.G]

i've come off 3 times, now I use a 'ladder mat' if the ground is slippery, the best £12 I've spent.