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Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Upholstery Cleaning
« on: August 09, 2008, 10:33:37 am »
I have never been a fan of upholstery cleaning, the 2 main reasons being that with so many fabics out there it can be easy to damage the material (even for experienced cleaners) and secondly its lots harder work than carpet cleaning!

For the first time on Friday i looked at an Aridex rotary foam upholstery cleaning machine.  This system would apear to take a lot of the risk out of upholstery cleaning, as well as the plus side being you can cover the area quicker than with conventional hwe or dry cleaning methods.

Do any of you use the system or something similar?  This could be a turning point with regards to my attitude towards upholstery cleaning :D

Your thoughts advice or experience with this system would be appreciated.

regards and thanks

Paul


spencer davies

  • Posts: 651
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 10:48:29 am »
Firstly I would get on some training courses.

We use a Drimaster tool made by Hydramaster, extremely effective tool that leaves the upholstery surprisingly dry.


S

from edge2edge

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2008, 11:22:34 am »
Harvey i have the older version of this von schrader machine which has a rather heavy brush tool but does give good results even if the dirtier areas need a little extra work(arms headrests etc).If i did a lot of upholstery cleaning i would probably invest in a cfr handtool for my powerflite extractor though .I went on a host von schrader course and was told that the only thing you cant clean using this method is shiney chintz.The newer version is easier to operate and should leave the fabric virtually dry so thats a great selling point.Regards Alan(swindon)

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2008, 12:09:40 pm »
Firstly I would get on some training courses.

We use a Drimaster tool made by Hydramaster, extremely effective tool that leaves the upholstery surprisingly dry.


S

Hi Spencer,

I have just attended the Cleansmart course run by Derek Bolton, which was very helpfull and informative. 

It was on the course that i looked at the Aridex system and thought it seemed to cover the area fairly quickly and also take a lot of the risk out of of upholstery cleaning that is associated with water extraction. 
The Hydramaster tool looks likes a clever system, i presume that is run in conjunction with the HM T/M??

Alan,
I have a CFR machine and hand tool, which is obviously a very efficient bit upholstery cleaning equipment, but i liked the dry finish of the aridex, the speed of the system/machine, as well as the safe clean side of things (no worries of ruining the suite with browning, colour run etc etc)

cheers

Paul

from edge2edge

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2008, 12:18:14 pm »
Harvey I see from your details you are from the scottish borders.I would be interested to know what you can charge for an average suite up there.The reason i ask is that my cousin in Earlstone doesnt seem to get any leaflets from carpet cleaners.I was up for a funeral some weeks ago and you get to discussing all sorts of stuff when well into the booze.Regards Alan

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2008, 12:30:26 pm »
Harvey I see from your details you are from the scottish borders.I would be interested to know what you can charge for an average suite up there.The reason i ask is that my cousin in Earlstone doesnt seem to get any leaflets from carpet cleaners.I was up for a funeral some weeks ago and you get to discussing all sorts of stuff when well into the booze.Regards Alan

I am taking over my Dads CC business at the minute but he has been charging from around £80 upwards depending on size how many loose cushions and material etc.

Prices are most likely up tho! :)

How much do you charge way down south??

cheers

Paul

from edge2edge

  • Posts: 1507
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 12:44:29 pm »
Harvey I dont do alot of suites but start at £90 for an average 3 piece.Its too hard graft to do for alot less.Regards Alan

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2008, 01:15:55 pm »
Harvey I dont do alot of suites but start at £90 for an average 3 piece.Its too hard graft to do for alot less.Regards Alan

I agree hence my searching an easier, safer, quicker and more profitable option!

cheers

Paul

Does any use the Aridex system as there main upholstery cleaning system?

Jim_77

Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2008, 01:17:48 pm »
Harvey, I'm curious to know why you view upholstery as so risky and fraught with danger!  There's just as much can go wrong with carpets, it's all down to experience and confidence.

Subject to pre-testing (which will gradually become superseded by your experience) you can clean just about ANY modern upholstery fabric with a water-based system.  It's pretty resilient stuff, it has to be otherwise furniture wouldn't be covered in it!

Of course there are exceptions, but the problem is that you've maybe been listening too much to the scaremainering marketing tactics of the manufacturers who sell "dry" systems.

The last time I dry-cleaned a suite because I didn't want to get it wet was about 3 years ago, and even then 50% of the reason for doing that was that it wasn't visibly soiled.  If it had been dirty I'd have qualified with the client and extracted it.

I think the most common pitfall in upholstery cleaning is overwetting, so if you work with that in mind you've chopped out a huge part of the risk already.

Viscose is still fairly commonly found, although I've noticed recently that polyester is being used to replace the velour textures traditionally achieved with viscose in some fabrics.  Marks & sparks suites are a good example of this.

Viscose is normally used to create the textured, pile part of a fabric, typically 20% - 40% of the make-up of the fabric.  I don't think I've ever cleaned a 100% viscose suite, only a very old footstool from out of an insurance job which was the first time I learned about the "drowned rat effect" :)

That's one of two two things to watch out for with viscose - the matted down appearance it can be left with when water-cleaned, and also its loss of strength when wet.  I've found that modern viscose, when only very short pile (up to a couple of millimetres), suffers no matting down at all after water-based cleaning followed by a brisk drying off with a fan and a gentle towelling off to fluff the pile back up.

You should be looking towards building your suite cleaning up to £120 plus for an average suite, as your experience and confidence grows.  It's a lot easier to add on protector too, as many are protected originally.  One of the first questions I ask when quoting is "Was the suite supplied with a protector on it?".  This helps to plant the seed in the customer's mind that protector is important.

I sometimes under-price the protector and over-price the cleaning, so it all adds up to roughly the same but makes buying the protector a no-brainer for them ;)

Lose the Fear 8)

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11581
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2008, 01:28:45 pm »
I often find carpet cleaners who aren't 'fans of upholstery cleaning' charge what you charge and to be truthful if I charged your price I wouldn't be a fan either :-\


its not harder than carpet cleaning,  Its just you earn less doing it. Try charging £150 then you'll see how easy it becomes.

Mike

Ps; foam cleaning will never beat HWE, foam doesn't have the capacity to dissolve or flush out the dirt
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2008, 01:45:50 pm »
Harvey, I'm curious to know why you view upholstery as so risky and fraught with danger!  There's just as much can go wrong with carpets, it's all down to experience and confidence.

Subject to pre-testing (which will gradually become superseded by your experience) you can clean just about ANY modern upholstery fabric with a water-based system.  It's pretty resilient stuff, it has to be otherwise furniture wouldn't be covered in it!

Of course there are exceptions, but the problem is that you've maybe been listening too much to the scaremainering marketing tactics of the manufacturers who sell "dry" systems.

The last time I dry-cleaned a suite because I didn't want to get it wet was about 3 years ago, and even then 50% of the reason for doing that was that it wasn't visibly soiled.  If it had been dirty I'd have qualified with the client and extracted it.

I think the most common pitfall in upholstery cleaning is overwetting, so if you work with that in mind you've chopped out a huge part of the risk already.

Viscose is still fairly commonly found, although I've noticed recently that polyester is being used to replace the velour textures traditionally achieved with viscose in some fabrics.  Marks & sparks suites are a good example of this.

Viscose is normally used to create the textured, pile part of a fabric, typically 20% - 40% of the make-up of the fabric.  I don't think I've ever cleaned a 100% viscose suite, only a very old footstool from out of an insurance job which was the first time I learned about the "drowned rat effect" :)

That's one of two two things to watch out for with viscose - the matted down appearance it can be left with when water-cleaned, and also its loss of strength when wet.  I've found that modern viscose, when only very short pile (up to a couple of millimetres), suffers no matting down at all after water-based cleaning followed by a brisk drying off with a fan and a gentle towelling off to fluff the pile back up.

You should be looking towards building your suite cleaning up to £120 plus for an average suite, as your experience and confidence grows.  It's a lot easier to add on protector too, as many are protected originally.  One of the first questions I ask when quoting is "Was the suite supplied with a protector on it?".  This helps to plant the seed in the customer's mind that protector is important.

I sometimes under-price the protector and over-price the cleaning, so it all adds up to roughly the same but makes buying the protector a no-brainer for them ;)

Lose the Fear 8)

Hi Jim, thanks for the info, and i generally agree with all you have said about fear and a lack of experience and proper drying etc, but have to say that Derek Bolton who was the trainer on the Cleansmart course i attended was very pro wet cleaning, and concentrated the majortity of the day based on wet cleaning.

It was fairly much last thing on the day when we got the opportunity to play around with a few machines that we were shown the Aridex machine which i was very impressed with.  It seemed to offer a way of working quickly and efficiently without some of the possible problems that are associated with inexperienced upholstery cleaners, which i am at the moment, only time will change that.

My main reasons for seriously considering this or a similar system is a) its quicker  b) generally safer  c) a + b = an easier day with more profit 8)

cheers

Paul

PS The Cleansmart training was 100% about training and there was no hard sell what so ever!  They obviously made themselves available to sell but the day for the students was about the training not about being sold to!

PPS Derek Bolton did an excelent job!

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2008, 01:52:57 pm »
I often find carpet cleaners who aren't 'fans of upholstery cleaning' charge what you charge and to be truthful if I charged your price I wouldn't be a fan either :-\


its not harder than carpet cleaning,  Its just you earn less doing it. Try charging £150 then you'll see how easy it becomes.

Mike

Ps; foam cleaning will never beat HWE, foam doesn't have the capacity to dissolve or flush out the dirt

I mostly agree with you Mike, although i do think its harder working a hand tool for 2 hours than it is working a floor wand for 2 hours! 

But i do plan to to increase the prices we charge, and for sure my general attitude towards and my dislike of upholstery cleaning may change if i felt i had been rewarded properly for my hard work!

cheers

Paul

Jim_77

Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2008, 01:55:15 pm »
I could clean carpets a lot more profitably, I could forget about pre-vacuuming and pre-spraying and just rinse them through with water.  But I don't, because I know of a better way than that.

There aren't really any shortcuts other than sacrificing quality.

Focusing on having an easier day with more profit is a very self-centred approach that doesn't really give any consideration to what your customers want!  There are plenty of customers out there who are prepared to pay a decent amount of money to have someone spend some quality time with their furniture and give them a good service.

Paul Davidson

  • Posts: 135
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2008, 02:54:26 pm »
I could clean carpets a lot more profitably, I could forget about pre-vacuuming and pre-spraying and just rinse them through with water.  But I don't, because I know of a better way than that.

There aren't really any shortcuts other than sacrificing quality.

Focusing on having an easier day with more profit is a very self-centred approach that doesn't really give any consideration to what your customers want!  There are plenty of customers out there who are prepared to pay a decent amount of money to have someone spend some quality time with their furniture and give them a good service.

Jim, you seem to enjoy talking people down with your suposedly superior knowledge, if i am wrong about this then i am sorry but that is the way you come over, not just with this post but in lots of others too. 

You are obviously a very experienced and knowledgable carpet cleaner but please dont imply that i am a slacker or not prepared to work hard, by saying i am self centred in looking for an easier day without any consideration for my customers.

Doing research to see if i can find a more efficient and profitable way of doing something is good business practise. 

I want to give my customers a quality job with them being happy with a clean 3 piece suite!  If an Aridex does this to a high / satifactory standard then i will seriously consider it. If it does not leave upholstery clean then i am not interested in it!

At the moment that is what i am trying to find out, its called doing your homework!

So in future if you have anthing informative to add to any posts a may make then please do as i genuinely appreciate the knowledge of others including your self but, if you just want to talk me down then please keep your superior knowledge to yourself    Thankyou!

Regards and thanks

Paul

Jim_77

Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2008, 03:35:01 pm »
This is the problem with forums, it's just words typed on a screen.  People read things and perceive them to be "said" in a certain way when that might not be the case.

Maybe if I put more smileys in it, I don't know :) :D ;D

I'm giving you my honest opinion, that's all.  If there was a way to get really good results in half the time of HWE don't you think that we'd all be doing it?

The reason I question your motivation is because we are in a service industry - you find out what your customer wants and then provide the service to meet those needs.  Wanting to make life easier for yourself can very often clash with what's best for your customers.  Mike has made a very good point in his post above.

I really don't care if people think I'm being "superior" or talking down to them.  To be honest, I read some really questionable stuff on here which nobody ever challenges and I think more of the experienced professionals should do their duty to the industry and steer people in the right direction, rather than ignoring such things.

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2008, 04:01:15 pm »
Jim

I've had the same problem for years ! That is, the years I've been posting on forums. It's very difficult to be the same person you are in a face to face discussion.

A few do it very well, but not the majority. You have to take the overall post and consider what the poster attempting to get accross.

robert m

My wife has posted occasionally over the past couple of years and set up this current I D she got quickly put off by a particular member who assumed her to be me. Hasn't even looked in since.

markpowell

  • Posts: 2279
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2008, 07:22:41 pm »
I like doing upholstery just as much as carpets, there is a lot of carpet cleaners im my area that wont touch suites and will only clean carpets, god knows why not!
Mark

Steve Chapman

  • Posts: 1743
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2008, 08:13:07 pm »
Paul,

The truth of the matter is the foam system is completely useless on dirty upholstery, i wouldn't bother going there if i was you,

To do a professional job with a proper deep clean you need to go hwe, you certainly wont have an easy day if you cant get a decent result from your method of cleaning.

I tried the system at the last cleaning show and it was a joke, it didnt even clean the demo chair they had there,  ::)

I would only use this if you were def only going to do clean suites, but in the real world we know that doesnt happen

steve

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2008, 08:36:20 pm »
Years ago when I cleaned with a foaming brush machine called a Holloway swift we used to get wick back problems even after a HWE rinse, to HWE after was a bit of a joke because the injection of water couldn't get into the fabric as it was full of foaming cleaner and would repel it.

Foaming cleaner was great a brightening cotton prints up that's all.

Shaun

carlton care

  • Posts: 429
Re: Upholstery Cleaning
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2008, 08:42:58 pm »
Is this being sold as NEW................I'm sure this has been around almost as long as I've been cleaning suites, 24 years.

Anyone who attended a SAFECLEAN presentation about 15 - 20 years ago will have seen such a machine, which generated foam, although it was using natural sponges at that time, rather than a power brush.

robert m

I still have an old Holloway, complete with wooden box and two brushes.