[derek west]

on august the 4th i get to clean my first belgium wilton, at the survey i told the cust i cant clean it, its compound clean only, and i only (at the mo) use hot water extraction, i continued to inform the customer that because of the low absorbancy rate of the man made fibre, the water would easily get into the backing and shrink the carpet, this is what i was taught at the ncca and prochem and therefore is what i am led to believe, ive always wondered if this was entirely true and wondered if i was careful, maybe, just maybe the carpet would not shrink, then she turned to me and said, well actually once its cleaned its being lifted and put in her fathers house so she didnt mind if the carpet shrunk, i could finally find out if what i'd been taught was true,
so my question to you guys is
will it shrink, and if yes, have i got a cat in hells chance of not shrinking it.
if it wont shrink then great, and if maybe it will, maybe it wont then what should i do to accomplish not shrinking it.
oh and is it belgium or belgian???

[kinder clean]

Hi Derek

I was told by the guy I did my training with and I've also seen a few posts on various forums saying the same, that you can wet clean with caution, don't get it too wet and make more passes to extract than you would normally, its also said to make a big difference if the carpet is fitted securely, however.....I also heard a story that a guy wet cleaned a belgian wilton, got it too wet and as he stood there he could hear a creaking noise, it gradually got louder and louder.....then BANG!!! the carpet came off its gripper at both sides Simultaneously with such ferocity that the ends slapped together crushing the cleaner who was stood there, all they found was a bit of hair and a pair of overshoes..... OK that was a lie -  the fact that she told you it doesn't matter if it shrinks will make it a great experiment, let us know how it goes.

P.S. If your looking to add low moisture cleaning to your armament, get yourself an Oreck orbitor (see it on cleansmart website) they are great for bonnet cleaning, very light only has a 13" drive plate, so ideal for domestic and small commercial - look out for one on E bay I picked one up for less than a ton.

Paul

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Derek,

My BW technique is to pre spray lightly, then spray carpet from about 9 inches and then extract.Never had any probs using this method.

i.e do not force water into carpet.

Otherwise Texatherm or Dry Fusion are both very effective .

Cheers

Doug

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Morning Derek

Done quite a few BWs in my time and I concur with all the advice above.

I've only shrunk one in my time but I told the client before I started that it was going to shrink. (It was really bad and very high levels of blacktop/grease in the front door and kitchen door areas and in front of the chairs.)

Given that the only other option was a new carpet which he was not able to afford the small shrinkage on the opposite walls was deemed acceptable.

(The client was pretty much house bound and it was social services dictating that something had to be done about the blacktop-something to do with "elf 'n' safety" was the way they put it.)

[derek west]

cheerds doug and paul, so it can be done then, sounds like ive got my first real skill challenge, how do you keep the moisture down doctor, any tips on how you do it?

[markpowell]

Derek,
Clean as you would any other carpet but make sure you do lots of vaccum only passes.
Are you sure its a belgian wilton, what tests have you done to confirm this?
If it is a BW i always tack the carpet to the grippet or floorboard every 12 inch before i start cleaning leaving enough tack showing so that i can pull them out once dry. I have cleaned loads of these using this method and never had a problem.
Mark

[Daveyboy]

My BW technique is to pre spray lightly, then spray carpet from about 9 inches and then extract.Never had any probs using this method.

i.e do not force water into carpet.

Doug what agitation method would you recommend?
Cheers, Davey.

[derek west]

its a woven carpet with the jute running one way,(weft is it?) and then the cotton running the other. then i did a burn test on the fabric and it melted, so to me i'm guessing its a bw, thats what i was taught, might be wrong but either way its a man made fibre with jute so its very susceptible to shrinkage and browning. i think, hey i'm new, go easy on me. lol.

[John Kelly]

This wouldn't be any kind of experiment as they are all different. Some will shrink some won't. Recent ones aren't as bad as the earlier versions.
Good thorough vacuum helps remove a lot of the dirt, then as Doug says spray from 9-12 inchs above the carpet then extract with a few drying passes.  Always used to get a disclaimer signed once we'd warned customers of the potential problem. Might not stand up in court but it would put most people off trying it on.
Always prefered to bonnet clean them anyway, usually with excellent results as they are polyprop.
Its Belgian Wilton as they are usually made in Belgium but not exclusively.

Browning not usually a problem with polyprops mainly wool.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Probably as much down to technique and confidence!

I've always used a prochem pre-spray and then rinse extracted.

Never let the pre-spray dwell for too long (not use too much). Extract as normal ensuring you don't over wet and then a few extra dry passes.

You could always use a blower as well to speed drying up.

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

i clean these b.w. at about 230 heat running 500 psi  without problems however you do need a r.d.m. for this

[derek west]

come on susan, i'm a newbie, rdm? room drying maching? rapid dirt mover, really dry mop? am i getting close. lol?

[derek west]

rdm, rotary dri master, doh!!!! 500psi? whats that, about 30 mins cleaning time with 60 gallon tank.

[derek west]

not got a bonnet cleaner, truckmount and wand,

[derek west]

think i'll try a light prespray, multi pro 1 to 8, 2 meter segments across the width of the room, then fib fab from 9 inches high and a scrub action dry pass, how does that sound.

[markpowell]

Derek,
Forget the burn test and do a float test, if the fibre floats in a glass of water then its polyprop, BW should have Jute weft shots running in both directions this is why when they shrink they shrink both ways, however i have cleaned loads of these and never had a problem
Mark

[derek west]

Mark, think the jute was only in one direction, did you clean the bw's as normal (hwe) or did you take precautions

[markpowell]

Derek,
I have always been led to believe that BW had jute weft shots running in both directions with a polyprop face fibre i have never seen or heard of any other types, even though there may be some.
I have always cleaned as normal with HWE and with plenty of vac passes.
Make sure the fixings are secure and if in doubt tack the carpet down as i stated earlier in this topic an dyou should be fine, far too many people worry about BW just do the basic checks, dont overwet and plenty of vac passes and you will be fine
Mark

[derek west]

your probably right mark, i thought a belgium wilton was a woven carpet using man made fibres and axminsters and wiltons were woven with wool. cant remember them saying jute both ways, i thought it went one way and 2 strands of cotton went the other, when the jute gets wet it expands making the cotton travel further which creates the shrinkage, maybe i missed the bit about jute both ways. anyway i'll keep the moisture down as much as possible and if it shrinks i'll turn down any further jobs in that catagory. and if it doesn't shrink i'll keep being careful, cheers for all this, now onto my other thread, especiall the bit about chewing gum,

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

You don't really need agitaion on BW if you leave a reasonable dwell time, because of the nature of PP, dirt etc does not bond well and can be relatively easily removed.

Cheers

Doug