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CC Windows

  • Posts: 52
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2008, 05:30:59 pm »
you will always need your ladders georgians builders cleans etc

I agree, but if this did 90% of windows then I could cope with 10% ladder work!

Obviously any first cleans would have to be ladder too!




good luck with it hope it works out for you

I will let you know once the stuff arrives  ;D

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2008, 05:36:45 pm »
Your standard will definately drop. A lot!

You may be able to get away with a squeegee on a pole, but you'll never detail it properly and there will be smudges on every window.

Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2008, 05:45:09 pm »
Hi CC,

Welcome to the forum

I do a lot of commercial internal high pole work. Most window cleaners I know think I am pretty good with a pole and squeegee.

I have tried doing residential with a pole but there are a few main problems you will face.

1. runs. residential windows are small and often a small opener is placed above another pane of glass in the frame. You would have to clean then detail to stop the runs before doing the glass below.

2. Detailing - made easier by use of the unger fixi clamp but at a distance quite difficult.

3. Time - traditional pole work is time consuming. Ok its safer than ladders but accuracy / detailing is difficult as your not up close and personal.

4. Angles. wfp lads will tell you that depending on the layout of the garden etc you end up standing all over the place to reach the window, sometimes right under (alley way beside house) it or a long way back from it (over a flower bed) etc. With wfp the brush angle is less important as long as you can scrub and rinse the glass. With a squeegee the angle on the glass is very important if a good result is required.

5. Technique. There are many ways to use a pole to clean a window, its a never ending art form. I have over seven different squeegees from ledgers, to 0 degrees to back flips, to wagtails all which have a very specific job. You can even clean a window with a damp microfibre applicator followed by a microfibre in a fixi clamp but it is very time consuming. Learning which technique suits which window and angle takes years to master. I have been cleaning windows since I was 15 and I am now 40. I love pole work but its still difficult with out concentration.

In summary making money in window cleaning is all about having a competitive price and doing an excellent job every time. In this day and age a traditional pole has its place, and that is where all other methods are deemed unsuitable. Where a ladder would be difficult or unsafe to use, or where it is simply quicker to pole (shop fronts etc). Using a pole for residential work in my experience would not be efficient and you would struggle to earn a good living. You also have to remember that on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter in thick clothing and gloves it would be more difficult again.

In you position I would get a ladder, and learn to use it correctly. Save the money and buy wfp.

If you really dont want to use a ladder get wfp from day one.

Remember, to be a professional window cleaner you need to master a range of skills. I use ladders, poles, and wfp regularly,  all have their place and all are necessary tools.

Wfp is not better than traditional ladder work, especially as you cant use wfp indoors on the whole, but it is faster and safer to use for external domestic work.  A traditional pole is safer than a ladder but you will struggle to make a living. A ladder when used safely is an excellent tool of the trade.

I hope that waffle helps

Whatever you decide to do - good luck

Kev  ;)






CC Windows

  • Posts: 52
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2008, 05:53:14 pm »
Hi CC,

Welcome to the forum

I do a lot of commercial internal high pole work. Most window cleaners I know think I am pretty good with a pole and squeegee.

I have tried doing residential with a pole but there are a few main problems you will face.

1. runs. residential windows are small and often a small opener is placed above another pane of glass in the frame. You would have to clean then detail to stop the runs before doing the glass below.

2. Detailing - made easier by use of the unger fixi clamp but at a distance quite difficult.

3. Time - traditional pole work is time consuming. Ok its safer than ladders but accuracy / detailing is difficult as your not up close and personal.

4. Angles. wfp lads will tell you that depending on the layout of the garden etc you end up standing all over the place to reach the window, sometimes right under (alley way beside house) it or a long way back from it (over a flower bed) etc. With wfp the brush angle is less important as long as you can scrub and rinse the glass. With a squeegee the angle on the glass is very important if a good result is required.

5. Technique. There are many ways to use a pole to clean a window, its a never ending art form. I have over seven different squeegees from ledgers, to 0 degrees to back flips, to wagtails all which have a very specific job. You can even clean a window with a damp microfibre applicator followed by a microfibre in a fixi clamp but it is very time consuming. Learning which technique suits which window and angle takes years to master. I have been cleaning windows since I was 15 and I am now 40. I love pole work but its still difficult with out concentration.

In summary making money in window cleaning is all about having a competitive price and doing an excellent job every time. In this day and age a traditional pole has its place, and that is where all other methods are deemed unsuitable. Where a ladder would be difficult or unsafe to use, or where it is simply quicker to pole (shop fronts etc). Using a pole for residential work in my experience would not be efficient and you would struggle to earn a good living. You also have to remember that on a freezing cold day in the middle of winter in thick clothing and gloves it would be more difficult again.

In you position I would get a ladder, and learn to use it correctly. Save the money and buy wfp.

If you really dont want to use a ladder get wfp from day one.

Remember, to be a professional window cleaner you need to master a range of skills. I use ladders, poles, and wfp regularly,  all have their place and all are necessary tools.

Wfp is not better than traditional ladder work, especially as you cant use wfp indoors on the whole, but it is safer to use for external domestic work.  A pole is safer than a ladder but you will struggle to make a living.

I hope that waffle helps

Kev  ;)








Thanks for the reply Kev!

I do all windows currently with ladders the trad way! ordered these bits and bobs to make life easier on them windows that you take you're life into you're own hands to do (My wife goes mad haha)

If it only cuts down on the amount of ladder work then I will be happy, 100% ladderless would be nice, but I know that will never happen!

Once again thanks for the detailed post, and every point you made I can relate to!

Tosh

Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2008, 05:56:18 pm »
Ive got a trolley system that i am currently getting used to. Im not entirely convinced about wfp as opposed to trad. I still only use it on awkward houses as it seems alot of messing about compared to trad....

Im tempted to get a backpack but cant justify investing anymore in wfp at moment. Im just going to give it more time with the trolley.

A backpack is the answer to ditching ladders, when you're on a budget; mostly.  I still do first cleans and windows above flat roofs using ladders, but I rarely climb them more than three-times-per-day.

Ian_Giles recently bought himself a backpack (to supplement his van-mount) and he's over-the-moon with it.  He reckons he can do two 'semi's' with one fill (which I find surprising, since I can't; and I've been using a backpack for nearly four years).

Budget or not, a backpack is a good bit of of kit; better than a trolley.

You should have asked here first; I'd have saved you some dosh!


Kevin R

  • Posts: 906
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2008, 06:02:52 pm »
Your Welcome  ;)

If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!

Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.

When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.

Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool.  ;D

CC Windows

  • Posts: 52
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2008, 07:54:26 pm »
Your Welcome  ;)

If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!

Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.

When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.

Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool.  ;D

Kev

Once again thanks, everything you have posted are my main reasons for investing in a pole set up!

m b shaw

  • Posts: 101
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2008, 09:36:33 pm »
yes you can ditch the ladders now,i ve read with interest some of the advice given so here s some more.we got rid of ladders at least 6 yrs ago bearing in mind i ve been cleaning over 23yrs and never lost a customer.the way we did it was be honest and tell each client why we won t use ladders any more and that no the upstairs might not be perfect but we always make a class job downstairs. now 99 out of a hundred said,thats fine we don t want any accidents just for the sake of cleaning windows that we never look through.we also use wfp for last 5 yrs so ladders never will be a problem thank god.p s sorry did lose 1 she said windows fine but i like to see you earn your money,thick cow.cheers mick

MJH

  • Posts: 901
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2008, 09:59:30 pm »
Your Welcome  ;)

If your using your pole just to keep you safe on those difficult windows you will soon become a pole hero with all your body parts intact!

Just by recognizing that there is a health and safety issue and choosing to use a pole will save your life. I truly believe that wfp has been the biggest advance regarding safety in the last 10 years but I remember doing exactly the same as your doing for many years.

When you get a large internal and external commercial job you will be pleased that you made the effort to learn the traditional skills even when you eventually go wfp.

Ps I will never get rid of my ladders as they still make me lots of money and are a very valuable tool.  ;D

Kev

Once again thanks, everything you have posted are my main reasons for investing in a pole set up!

Hi CC welcome to the forum.

A few years ago I used to use an extension pole (6m) to do dorma bungalows, in my experience and others  you are best to avoid this method and go straight down the wfp route, it is very time consuming and ineffective, detailing is a nightmare and you can't clean the sills as well.

I have lost a couple of customers that have decided to do there own windows with a pole and squegee, and after a short while they wanted me back because they looked terrible, if this method worked it would have taken off!!

Commercially its good on large panes of glass but for residential a time waster due to openers etc etc.

Best to stick to the ladder or wfp.

if it works for you let us know!

Regards Matt

CC Windows

  • Posts: 52
Re: Can I ditch the ladders yet?
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2008, 11:06:39 pm »
yes you can ditch the ladders now,i ve read with interest some of the advice given so here s some more.we got rid of ladders at least 6 yrs ago bearing in mind i ve been cleaning over 23yrs and never lost a customer.the way we did it was be honest and tell each client why we won t use ladders any more and that no the upstairs might not be perfect but we always make a class job downstairs. now 99 out of a hundred said,thats fine we don t want any accidents just for the sake of cleaning windows that we never look through.we also use wfp for last 5 yrs so ladders never will be a problem thank god.p s sorry did lose 1 she said windows fine but i like to see you earn your money,thick cow.cheers mick

Thats good to know, tbh I have mentioned it to my customers while out that I am thinking about using a pole on some and possibly all 1st floor windows, not one has complained even though I have said that they wouldnt be perfect!

But for my own peace of mind I want ALL my windows to be as near as perfect as possible, so will do some trial runs on my own and family properties and see how I get on