Thanks Shaun, we do work office hours. Also, I said what I could on the basis of the information I had yesterday and wanted to do more investigation before jumping in with another reply.
We do not have an ASDA near us, but I went to Focus last night, which hires out these machines. There were various Rug Doctor chemicals on display. Only the Carpet Detergent had the WoolSafe Mark on. I bought a (1 litre) bottle and in the test this morning it behaved like the sample we got before (pH=9.4, not buffered). So we still do not know what has gone wrong with the bottles you got. Can you send us some with a copy of the label so we can follow it up? How old was it? The top usually has a long number on which starts with the year of manufacture. We have last year’s sample in archive – it did not change. These chemicals should have a shelf life of a few years provided they are not exposed to extreme temperatures.
Generally WoolSafe does not obtain samples from the market (though we have the right to do so in cases of complaint). The manufacturer is obliged under the terms of their licence to supply us with a representative sample from the most recent production, and we believe they do that. It is also in their interest to have the product independently tested to avoid complaints.
Regarding the label: professional products usually have the pH on; but can you expect the average consumer to know what it means? Listing the ingredients is not possible for fear of copying.
Safe pH is not as easy as giving you a number, Paul. We spend a lot of time on this topic at our training course. Basically, wool is not damaged by acids, but a cleaner would not want to handle anything below 2. Alkalis do damage wool on long contact. Above 11 is certainly not a good idea, below that it depends on the buffering, i.e. how easy it is to change. That is why we do a separate test for it. pH 10.5 could be safe if just one drop of acid brings it down. But you can have a product with pH 8 which we reject if buffered, because it can cause colour bleeding.
Neil says "Woolsafe, have you seen the damage that 1001 does to carpets, something very strange about approving these products becasue they are leathal in the wrong hands. The wrong hads being the public which they are aimed at and you guys approve it. "
There are a lot of other things which are lethal in the wrong hands and we cannot stand behind everyone.
Seriously, I do take your point, but we have to draw the line somewhere. There are an awful lot of products out there which would cause damage even in the right hands! 1001 does not have any bleaching or otherwise damaging agents in it and is safe if used correctly. We know about the residue, it is not difficult to rinse out when fresh, but can be a real problem if left – and of course that is when you see it.
Shaun: First approval of 1 product is about £1000, annual cost from second year around £600. With multiple products the “per product” rate goes down. It is not a lot for a healthy company. I can send you all the info if you wish, just drop me a line (
agnes@woolsafe.org).
Have a good weekend everyone!
Ágnes