[Andy Foster]

Got an email asking for the corner unit below to be cleaned - described as 'undamaged but has children stains'

It is 80 mile round trip for me and I quoted £300 including VAT - would have been an all day job including travel.

Is this too much for this job?

Thoughts please.

Andy



Andy

[Andy Foster]

2 more pics

[Kev Loomes]

Andy

Are you sure it can be cleaned? Have you inspected/tested? The only reason I ask is because it looks like an aniline or a pull up? Very difficult to remove stains - if not impossible, hope you clarified it with custy.

£300.00 is a good price for the long distance involved, seems about right. If it was local (and pigmented) £200.00 would have been fair too.

Cheers


Kev

[Jim_77]

Looks like it needs chucking in a skip, along with the children who messed it up!

[Andy Foster]

I can see what you mean from the photos.
However, I was told it was a buff coloured suite and not a pull up aniline.

I am glad you think the price was fair, just wanted some reassurance really.

Thanks

Andy

[Jason Hedges]

Hi Andy,

Good price for a clean taking into consideration travelling.

However it looks really trashed, not sure just a clean will bring it up. I'm sure one or more of the experts will steer you in the right direction

All the best,
Jason.

[Roger Koh]

Andy,

£300 is good money.

Too cheap if they are happy!

Naivety is optimistic!

Experience is pessimistic!

Our hindsight becomes our foresight when customer’s expectation is unrealistic and turns sour.

Need Enlightenment?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.

[Andy Foster]

Andy,

£300 is good money.

Too cheap if they are happy!

Naivety is optimistic!

Experience is pessimistic!

Our hindsight becomes our foresight when customer’s expectation is unrealistic and turns sour.

Need Enlightenment?

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.

Thanks Roger... I think!!!

Translation is what I really require.   

[carlton care]

Two things to consider BEFORE taking this on, well maybe three.

Customer expectation  -  they say it's just soiled  -  they expect it to clean!

Your expectation  -  ??

What would you earn if you stayed closer to home ?

Really, it's looks like a potential nightmare especially when you don't know what type of finish you have to deal with


They say Victory Favours The Brave but others say He Who Turns And Walks Away Lives To Fight Another Day 

[Kev Loomes]

I can see what you mean from the photos.
However, I was told it was a buff coloured suite and not a pull up aniline.

I am glad you think the price was fair, just wanted some reassurance really.

Thanks

Andy

The only reason I asked is because there is a big nasty spill on the seat cushion and most people would have wiped this away on a normal finished leather. The fact that its still there indicates that the leather is perhaps absorbant.

Let us know how you got on.

Good luck!

[markpowell]

I am no leather expert but imo this looks like analine to me by the way it has soaked up the stains.The problem with these suites is that they will soak up the cleaning product just as fast as you put it on. These stains will be impossible to remove.
You could do an analine re-colour which is a simple procedure just mixing some dye and placing on the suite with a sponge and leaving to soak in, the results using this method can be amazing. I know Judy has posted some before and after pics of this type of job before on the forum.
Mark

[Andy Foster]

They've come back and said it is too expensive    so my decision is made for me.

Thanks for the advice though chaps.

Andy

[LTT Leathercare]

Photos can be very deceptive but it does from the photos it does look like an aniline style leather.  
As has been previously said you should always make your own assessment of what type of leather it is and not rely on what the customer (or anyone else) tells you.  Then you can assess the type of results you will get from cleaning.

If this does turn out to be an aniline then the cleaning process may not be enough to give any real results that the customer would be happy with in which case the customer needs to understand this before you do the job.  This is tricky when there is distance involved as 80 miles is a long way to go to assess a job which you may not then get.
If it is an aniline the aniline rstoration process however would really bring this suite back to life but would cost a lot more than £300.00

For a pigment suite (if it is) then £300.00 is a good price for the round trip and the clean.

I would ask the customer to send you a sample of the leather and then you can do your tests and assessment before committing yourself to the job.

Hope this helps

[LTT Leathercare]

Not typing fast enough!!!!!

[Joe H]

I think you done well not to be there.

You could charge £150 on "cleaner" suites then that much nearer home, do 2 in a day to get the £300 and still watch Wimbledon in the afternoon.

[*paul_moss]

It does look Aniline and as well as spills there is head grese on 2 cushion areas.
I would agree with Judy  on pricing, if it was pigmented then 300 quid is good , but if it is Anilne and there fore lots of work and some that may need a second or third  trip then I would be quoting 1k and poss more.

[Andy Foster]

Thanks for that everyone.

As I say, I am only going on the custy's description of the suite which they stated as not being aniline but if I got there and it was, then obviously I would have to change things round with them.
When I received the photos, the first question was regarding absorbency of the leather.

Anyway, it is not a moot point now because they don't want to spend 300 let alone 1k on it so never mind.

Thanks once again.

Andy

[Roger Koh]

The opinions here are unanimously wise.

But it is always better to be wisely rich than to be wisely poor!

Andy quoted £300 yet customer thinks it is too expensive.

Carlton Care put it wisely and questions “expectation”.

Kev shares his identification experience from pictures (wasting time for on-site identification).

Marks sums up the degree of technical difficulties accurately.

Judy brings out the point of need to educate customer.

For Joe, it good grief not to be there, I share his sentiment too.

Paul is realistic about a minimum of £1000, maybe up to £3000 for me.

Quote Carlton’s “Your expectation  -            ?? “.

I translated it as “Price equals Service Input”.

The higher the quality of our service the higher is our price.

In leather, cheap can be very expensive!

And expensive service can be very cheap!

Quote Andy “Anyway, it is not a moot point now…”

However!

It is a beginning of a reassessment of this tricky leather cleaning and restoration business.

It may snap all our energy and time for nothing.

The science of leather cleaning is completely thrown out of this forum especially the “pH Value”.

Without a pH value, there is no science in our educating our customer.

How do we explain the chemistry technicality of leather cleaning that brings value to our service?

Without a technical presentation of why certain products in certain sequence of cleaning process is necessary to achieve the desired result that translate to cost, how would the customer understand the need for a higher cost of service.

This customer outright throw out of a £300 “cheap” quote is a classic example of a lack of technical presentation on the principle of leather cleaning.

A very good educational presentation would be able to secure this job for £3000 instead.

If we have equal opportunities and need to sloth for a living than why go “for a lamb instead of a sheep”?

I am here to help.

So that!

Your customer “wins”.

You “win”.

And I “win”.

Roger Koh
Leather Doctor® System.

[Andy Foster]

Thank you for your lengthy and philosophical response Roger but to be honest I think you are missing the point here.

The customer could go out and buy a new one for not much more than you would expect to charge (if indeed you would charge £3k for this job) so why on Earth would they pay that to have it restored.  That is if it is in fact aniline... if it is pigmented as they say then they could buy another one for less than the £1k that has been.

The customer said that they would not be prepared to spend £300 to have it cleaned, so I don't understand how any amount of education would get them to part with 10 times that much, especially considering the above.

I understand and admire your passion for the art of leather restoration and very much aspire to have the depth of knowledge you have on the subject.  In the meantime I will resign myself to being a 'poor carpet cleaner'  .

 

Andy

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Agreeing with both parties (Andy and Roger) but aimed at Roger, can you put on here a script/conversation/audit/presentation that you have done to get a clean for non expensive leather to a cost conscious customer?

If we start at the bottom end then the wording can be changed to accomodate the top end clientelle.

Shaun