[Mike 108]

Tony

You say that you don't clean the top frame on windows -

Do you mean the top frame above 'openers' only, or do you not do the top of the frame even on frames without any openers?

And what about ground floor windows - do you not do the top of the frames on these?  Do the top of the frames not finish up back and spoil the overall appearance?

Mike

[macmac]

I don't clean any top frame, i only clean anything that breaks up the glass i.e. if the window has got top openers i have to clean the part of the frame under it, & thoroughly too. Keep in mind i never & have never sold wfp on clean frames as i don't need to, i get perfect results just cleaning glass. If you've implanted the whole clean frames thing into a customers mind then it may be difficult to reverse this. I've never been requested to clean a frame in over 4 years wfp (only one trad), no customer has ever mentioned that the frames look dirty either & 9 times out of ten they don't look dirty but customers do like spotless glass
If i did get asked to clean the frames i would of course but at a premium cost.

To be able to work this way requires some specific techniques & equipment (nothing expensive) & some practice BUT perfect it & oxidized top frames are no longer a problem, niether are first cleans or dripping vents etc.

I will explain later if you are seriousley considering this method as a few tips/pointers make all the differense.

Tony

[Mike 108]

Hi Tony.

Sorry - I missed your reply yesterday.

Yes I am interested in having a few tips. Thanks.

You say you clean any part of the frame that 'breaks up the glass'.

So, if a large window has 2 openers above 1 large piece of fixed glass, you would clean that part of the frame beneath the openers - yes?

What about that part of the frame BETWEEN THE OPENERS - I have a few houses (including my own!) where I always get a line of drips/spots directly below where the 2 openers meet one another!

Is there a way to avoid this?

Thanks

Mike

[groundhog]

I pick up customer after customer because they are not happy that their present cleaner does not clean the frames and sills, this is a major selling point of wfp and I think we should all really take advantage of it, it is only time consuming on the first clean, then after a quick wipe is all it takes to keep the frames looking great especially on upvc. You can charge more money for your service, and probably be quicker as well because you don't have to carefully avoid getting the tops of the frames wet!! 

[macmac]

I pick up customer after customer because they are not happy that their present cleaner does not clean the frames and sills, this is a major selling point of wfp and I think we should all really take advantage of it, it is only time consuming on the first clean, then after a quick wipe is all it takes to keep the frames looking great especially on upvc. You can charge more money for your service, and probably be quicker as well because you don't have to carefully avoid getting the tops of the frames wet!! 

I also pick up customers who are fed up with dirty drips from vents, openers etc. so it works both ways.

I do a big hotel where the previous w/c'er (with 2 more years wfp experience to me) used to clean all the frames, he did this for 2 years then he left the area & i got the job. The manager couldn't beleive the difference between my work & his. mine spotless, his dirty drips, milking etc. His words " he used to leave streaks ". To be fair i told him i didn't clean the frames & that was how i got the results. his words " people don't look through the frames, give me clean glass "

The same thing also happend with a large nursing home.

Tony

[groundhog]

Yes sure there are exceptions, and staying away from vents is a must!! but wherever possible I think clean frames have to be desirable to the customer!!! 

[macmac]

Yes sure there are exceptions, and staying away from vents is a must!! but wherever possible I think clean frames have to be desirable to the customer!!! 

Many of my jobs it would be impossible to clean the top frame & get any kind of result with wfp. 100 year old sash's with corroding sandstone lintels above only an inch of top frame.

Desirable to the customer? maybe if you push it enough but for me it's less & easier work for the same money & hey, like said, not one complaint in over 4 years.

Tony

[NWH]

Yes sure there are exceptions, and staying away from vents is a must!! but wherever possible I think clean frames have to be desirable to the customer!!! 

Many of my jobs it would be impossible to clean the top frame & get any kind of result with wfp. 100 year old sash's with corroding sandstone lintels above only an inch of top frame.

Desirable to the customer? maybe if you push it enough but for me it's less & easier work for the same money & hey, like said, not one complaint in over 4 years.

Tony

Quiet right Tony,i have some similar work where cleaning frames isn`t an option in most cases it would make the results awful.

[macmac]

So, if a large window has 2 openers above 1 large piece of fixed glass, you would clean that part of the frame beneath the openers - yes?

Yes

What about that part of the frame BETWEEN THE OPENERS - I have a few houses (including my own!) where I always get a line of drips/spots directly below where the 2 openers meet one another!
 

Don't clean this part, only the frame directly under the openers.

I have to go offline now mike but will reply in more detail in next couple of days but for now- you need rectangular brush (not crinkle mono), 2mm pencil jets & an angle adaptor.

Tony

[macmac]

Yes sure there are exceptions, and staying away from vents is a must!! but wherever possible I think clean frames have to be desirable to the customer!!! 

Many of my jobs it would be impossible to clean the top frame & get any kind of result with wfp. 100 year old sash's with corroding sandstone lintels above only an inch of top frame.

Desirable to the customer? maybe if you push it enough but for me it's less & easier work for the same money & hey, like said, not one complaint in over 4 years.

Tony

Quiet right Tony,i have some similar work where cleaning frames isn`t an option in most cases it would make the results awful.

These are the jobs many wfp'ers drop thinking it can't be done & leaving a mess behind.  by this time the custy is usualy prepared to pay more for a professional.

Tony

[groundhog]

mac is obviously always right so just leave the frames dirty! the customer will be delighted and pay you extra!!!! 

[Pj]

Thanks, I look forward to happy customers and more money.

[groundhog]

Thanks, I look forward to happy customers and more money.

Sounds good to me!! 

[Wayne Thomas]

Anyone can notice dirt stacking up on the top of the frames on lower windows after 6months or so, especially on busy streets.

If you clean windows but not the frames:      if it rains heavy and strong winds, it will make a mess of the windows you've cleaned that day. If however the frames are cleaned everytime, the windows dry clean even in heavy rain.

The only time I leave part of the top frame is when there is a vent.

However it is possible to clean the vents if you dry brush them first or tilt the brush at more of an angle and just let the water cascade over the vent ensuring you thoroughly rinse just below the vent as well.

Cleaned frames are rain proof IMO.

[groundhog]

Anyone can notice dirt stacking up on the top of the frames on lower windows after 6months or so, especially on busy streets.

If you clean windows but not the frames:      if it rains heavy and strong winds, it will make a mess of the windows you've cleaned that day. If however the frames are cleaned everytime, the windows dry clean even in heavy rain.

The only time I leave part of the top frame is when there is a vent.

However it is possible to clean the vents if you dry brush them first or tilt the brush at more of an angle and just let the water cascade over the vent ensuring you thoroughly rinse just below the vent as well.

Cleaned frames are rain proof IMO.

Totally agree!! 

[AuRavelling79]

Talking upvc - (esp. white) I agree with groundhog.

If a top frame needs doing (every three times or so) I scrub it and the vent (making sure no water gets into it) and then the side frames. Then the next window on the same side of the house ... and a third if there is one.

Then back to 1st window (which should have stopped dripping) and do the glass and cill. Repeat etc.

[ronnie paton]

groundhog after watching your vid i tried all the top frames after 5 cleans still not perfect and when doing it like speedy gonzales they were very hit and miss, you prob feel that there all perfecy but i bet there not, but also small spots can not always be seen from the inside and only by looking at the right angle so all is ok im sure

[rugby]

 with the exception of the first  clean i also leave the top frame alone, i came to this method through trial and error over the last 5 years,i have much more reliable results this way.

as ive said before when this subject comes up, their is no right or wrong way set in stone to wfp, the right way is the way that works for you and your customers.so if you are not getting any complaints and you are not loseing any customers, stick to the way that works for you and dont worry about any one else's self important mine is the only way rants.