[windowwashers]

Ian

When i pitch I state my insurance £5 mill , my h@s policy , method statement , risk assessment, tell them we are police checked with id cards , hand them my bwca certs along with my apwc, tell them what its all about , then give them a reference sheet with big names on it (m&S, schools hospitals etc) then give them my price. it is no coincidence i get most of  the commercial jobs i quote for.

Just wish i was a member of the fed as well it would give me one more meaningful cert to present

Where do you get the police checked id cards ? all my guys are police checked and me, I dont have cards though but would be a bonus.


other thing is in the speech the APWC means not alot insurance yes, police checked yes, list of custmers to a degree yes h&s normal method normal.


the post was about Nat's guild he offer about what you do at minimal price, life insurance is cheap before you say that , what else is the difference no other knows of you round Cambridgeshire (large area)

Ian

[Pat Purcell]

I want to preface this statement by saying that I know nothing about the APWC or the Fed, but i would say that they are real associations that have real agendas, and these things are very very time consuming and costly,
The Guild for now is more of a collective of window cleaners and does not have the overheads that an Association has and also because of the existance of the FED and APWC who are trying to fight the big fights, its an easier task to fight the small battles for now( i should add that while I help in a small way with the guild I do not speak for the guild)

[Clive McDonald]

Say what you like but the guild dees seem to be a genuine grass roots move amongst window cleaners to take the business forward. And not a business decision by a group of guys with an agenda.

A  lot more people would join one of the groups mentioned if the fees were more reasonable. The main benefit is as has already been stated is credibility in the eyes of the customer, and as most customers haved never heard of any of them, then the guild makes the other two look like a rip off. If the other two had a more sensible joining fee they would probably have ten times the membership.

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

Thats not the point if people have not heard of you.

You have it on your stationary etc, then the customer may check this out to see what its all about.

If they check out the mgwc and see anyone can join for £1.00 then it loses credibility, a bit like a blue peter badge.

There are plenty of associations I have not heard of, but if i were employing a tradesman and he told me he was a member of one i would check it out online.

Most big building owners and large contracters have heard of the fed, not so many the apwc although there is an awareness having featured in several national cleaning magazines.

As for the id cards they were supplied by a government recognised trade association.

[Moderator David@stives]

Discount

People join trade associations to differentiate themselves from the competition and to show professionalism to a prospective customer.

I dont think £150 is expensive for a window cleaner, even less as you know it is a tax deductable.

most other business pay hell of a lot more to join an association.

Check out all the big window cleaning firms you will find them all a member of an association or 2 or more.

[Clive McDonald]

The fee should either include public liability to give a real benefit, be a full time trade body improving the image of the industry and negotiating a deal with defra and local authorities and trading standards.Or

If it does none of these things, and the top positions are a constant game of musical chairs, then the cheapest option represents the least worse option.

[steve.ternent]

Discount

People join trade associations to differentiate themselves from the competition and to show professionalism to a prospective customer.

I dont think £150 is expensive for a window cleaner, even less as you know it is a tax deductable.

most other business pay hell of a lot more to join an association.

Check out all the big window cleaning firms you will find them all a member of an association or 2 or more.

  I think £150 is a lot, even if it is tax deductible!
I still have to earn it  :

If the argument isn't about cost then surely joining another wouldn't matter,

If anything it would be another feather in the cap... so to speak.

If £150 is nothing,  £12 for another "Badge" is less than nothing...
and therefore worth every penny! 

[windowwashers]

Discount

People join trade associations to differentiate themselves from the competition and to show professionalism to a prospective customer.

I dont think £150 is expensive for a window cleaner, even less as you know it is a tax deductable.

most other business pay hell of a lot more to join an association.

Check out all the big window cleaning firms you will find them all a member of an association or 2 or more.

How can a logo or something most have not heard of make you show professionalism to a prospective customer.
I would say smart uniformI can see it could be a good talking point if you are short of words to say to prospects, I personally talk about my company and what I can do for them and safe ways we work, about 5mil liability insurance ect.
Safe Contractor I would join as it has benifits for my company.
it is all well and good joining every org's but there needs to be a point to pay money out in the first place and benifits to joining and staying joined over the years.

I did get you point about the £1 fee to join the mgwc maybe that should not be on the website for all to see then maybe it shows they are not in it for the money 2 sides to that I guess.
 

If you can join for a quid then that says it all, no credibility ?

so if it was £200 to join would that make a difference ?
Maybe it says its not being done for money more to help window cleaners

[RPCCS]

 You can have membership of umpteen trade orgs. but that doesn't mean a thing .For instance membership of the FMB doesn't mean that  an individual is a better builder, I speak from experience,had some work done by fmb member and it was trash. However if the tradesmen/women had to turn out work to a certain standard b4 being granted membership,then potential customers would be able to contact the relevant trade org that the canvasser belonged to for reassurance of trustworthyness and standards of workmanship. Then membership would be worth having as it would actually mean something.  (This post is not meant to be derogatory to anyone or organisation ,it is just my own opinion)

[Moderator David@stives]

Well for £150 i can also include a cert from a "government recognised trade association" in my quotation pack, to me that is money well spent.

I spend over £2000 in advertising each year so an extra £100 or so is small fry.

I am not promoting any particular association, just saying the badge has to have some worth.

[RPCCS]

Because there are no strict rules to say how you have to be organised to be classed as a professional window cleaner. A lot just rely on there own opinions.

This has no substance at all, until we all agree to join a recognised trade body and make it work in a positive way for window cleaners.

The cost is only a few pence a day, so there no financial argument.

You can have the best equipment offer the best service been trading for years and are successful but you are only promoting yourself not the window cleaning industry as a whole.

There will always be an argument whether you are professional because how you separate yourself from the cowboy is not recognised.
So you can argue all you like I won’t listen to you nor will the customers. They will smile then agree with you but you will still just be a window cleaner. Not a professional.

So ultimately window cleaners whether you agree or not do need recognition, and you can’t do it by yourself. As much as you may think you can.

Ewan  ;
[/quote ]This is exactly the point I'm trying to make Ewan, the industry itself needs to be promoted as a proffesion,rather than just an unskilled job. I read years ago that in Scotland they run NVQ courses in window cleaning for school leavers, if this is correct than IMO that creates a more proffessional image of the trade.

[Moderator David@stives]

p.s     a couple  quotation forms i have had to fill in lately have a box to enter any trade association details, so there is something in it.

The more commercial stuff you pick up you will notice this from time to time.

[AuRavelling79]

I am a member of B.A.G.S

Bristol and Gloucestershire Shiners.

We are an association of likeminded window cleaners in the Bristol and Glos areas who want to show our customers that we are reliable and trustworthy. With our sophisticated "Word for Windows" program and colour inkjet printer we produce the BAGS logo on our headed paper for all our larger quotations.

Appropriately it is a shield with a black background with BAGS written over the top with a squeegie to one side and a wfp to the other.

At our annual general meeting last week we had 100% attendance and we both decided to forge links with two other likeminded associations to add credibility.

The first is the South London and Guildford Shiners (SLAGS) and the other is the South Wales and Gwent group (SWAG).

If all six members of the three associations agree we will call ourselves the:-
SWAG-BAGS SLAGS which I am sure you'll agree will add credibility to all our quotations with this legend emblazoned across the top!

(I did hear that Tosh and Squeaky were going to leave the SWAG and set up JAGS -Japanese and Geordie Shiners - but only Tosh liked the name so that fell through ...)

[trevor perry]

dave is right a lot of commercial contracts want to know what organisations you are a member of , they also like to know of any contracts of a similar size that you are already doing, i feel anyone just starting out will find it harder and harder just to get passed the tendering stage and have there tender considered seriously.

[RPCCS]

Is there such an org as the Scottish Highland Area Shiners
SHAGS

[steve.ternent]

  well what's the final say..

Join..... YES or NO

Simply one word answers please ! 

[Kev R]

NO 

[Clive McDonald]

Ewans point is only valid if it were true, but it isn't. The recent history is full of factions, in fightiing, lack of direction , poor leadership, WFP slated on tv, missed opportunities, and egos.

Who exactly does Ewan suggest we give our £150-£200 and get behind?

[Kev R]

MGWC, Haven' t this "organization" lost their way already? 

[Nathanael Jones]

It's interesting that the MGWC is being compared to the Fed and the APWC in this thread.

We're just a few guys with a very small organisation trying to make some relatively small changes,.... The Fed and the APWC are "Trade associations",.... The MGWC is "just a club" as was pointed out to me previously. There is a world of difference between these different associations,.. and I beleive each has its place.

I think the Fed and the APWC do a great job,.. and are well worth joining if your business is in a place where it would truly benefit from being a member.

My own business would not benefit,.. and IMO i'd be throwing £150 down the drain. I've never been asked what trade association I belong to,... nor do I think any of my clients would be interested. The clients I have that have commented on the new logo honestly do not know the difference, and have never heard of the fed, apwc or the guild before in their lives,.. but they are impressed non the less.

Any logo on your stationary will 99 times out of 100 project a more positive & professional image when compared to stationary without. That's all I wanted to do when the Guild was first conceived.

For my business it has definitely been a success so far,... but every business is different. If the Fed or APWC suits you better then don't delay,.. it will help your business grow, so sign up today!