[Helen]

[quote author=Dave morris @ st-ives

I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.

I won't say don't cos it's not quite that easy is it? but.......... if you make yourself seriously ill because of this (or worse) then what is the point

I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.
If you haven't then share it with your wife....it's good to talk

The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.

Too right they do. So you have to do something about it before it makes you ill

Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.

If most of us employers are honest we all get like this from time to time, we are having a bad patch with employees and are having to re-define where we want to be with it all. The stupid amount of time spent on "red tape" issues are driving us round the bend. Staff holidays are to increase, more to pay out less coming in, rising cost of EVERYTHING. Staff demanding ridiculous wage increases etc etc etc. yet they go sick at the drop of a hat! Don't blame yourself by saying that you have got it wrong when employing, it is usuallly the person you employ that helps it to go wrong

Chears for now

Dave
[/quote]

[gordonswindows]

Well Dave are you feeling any better today?

Well here goes, this is to demonstrate how not alone or unusual you or your situation is.

Year 2000 after long service and climbing up the corporate ladder i ended up being hospitalised or instituionalised i think they call it. I had a breakdown and ended up in a mental health hospital.

Me, a larger than life centre of attention top achiever within a national department store chain, i spent far too long in there and when allowed home i found no employer would touch me with a barge pole, as soon as you mention mental health the " sane " people head for the hills.

My ten year old son suggested cos i liked cleaning mums windows i should be a window cleaner. We started with a borrowed £35 from my late mum no experience no no how and worst of all no customers.

My wife (couldnt have done it without her) two young kids and i hand wrote leaflets saying we wil clean your house windows for £3.50 yes ANY house, how stupidly lovely naive we were.

Week one got three clients week two reached the dizzy heights of ten, ten and how we danced around the living room with delight.

After walking with a ladder and a full bucket of water for nine months we finally did a deal with a local businessman.I washed his office windows and house windows for free and he rented me his car for £30 a week while he was at work. I walked to his house in the morning, drove him to his office used the car for my round returning at 5pm every day to collect him from work took him home and then i walked home. What a bargain eh all for £30 a week.He said it was cheaper than paying parking huh.

Long story short i know what it is like to be down there and how good it feels to build something but it can still be very difficult at times but Dave you must as Helen says talk to someone even if it is on here or by PM or e-mail or as she suggests your most loyal supporter your lovely wife.

Achieving a balance between work and home is what we all crave but like standing on a high wire it is bloody difficult and you need to learn to sway one direction or the other at different times to remain balanced.

Last year we turned over £400,000, today we have 28 staff with a manager, six vans and trucks a fully staffed office a second home in Spain and all the other trappings that goes with it , am i any happier? hard to say but success breeds success and once you start that cycle it is hard to stop it rolling along as you yourself demonstrate with your new 17 school contract.

My advice is get off the ladders and become the boss of the business, accept the fact you need to become a businessman and that you are no longer a window cleaner this will allow you to concentrate on achieving your business objectives instead of as now being slave of them all and master of none. You need to stand back and be the captain of your ship, plot the course,decide where you want to be and let others sail the ship and do the work. Imagine setting the sails doing the rowing, steering, the rudder all by yourself the ship would go round in circles or end up run aground. Sound familiar?

Wow too much info of me to you all but i hope some of it, any of it, even a little bit might make a wee bit difference to even one of you and Dave i hope i have maybe given you a little sight of the light at the end of the tunnel and to help you to see IT IS NOT YOU OR ANYTHING YOU ARE OR ARE NOT DOING like Helen said we as employers all get like this now and then.

Keep that chin up, give your missus a big hug and get your finger out and be the very best window cleaning business in your area cos you are obviously more than capable of it

As they said to me in the mental home " its not you thats crazy it is everyone else"

regards

Gordon
ps am i happy now? who knows but i will never forget that day we ring a ring a roseed around  the living room cos we had TEN customers.

[Helen]

It pays to take a step backwards and remember where you started. We too remember "punching" the air like we had scored the winning goal in the FA cup final when we got our first £15.00 house.

Gordon, so glad you came out the "other" end..... many don't.
I think the one thing we all forget from time to time is to laugh, in particular at the things that make you stressed.
I was once told that every negative can be turned into a positive. At first I didn't believe it, but when you put your mind to it it CAN be done.

[trevor perry]

hi dave
    i think we all get like this sometimes and helen has hit the nail on the head all the red tape and crap that employers have to put up with really wears you down, no wonder the country is like it is when the government make it harder for people to advance themselves.
   my definition of stress is the confusion caused in ones mind when it overides the body and stops you squeezing the s--t out of some arsehole who really deserves it.
   my advice is jusy do the best you can everything else is out of your control so pointless worrying about it.


 good luck in whatever you decide

[dai]

Dave, the one thing that comes through reading your posts, is your appreciation of your good lady.
Never let anything come between you and your relationship, the love in your life is the most important thing in it, talk everything through with her, well you probably do that anyway. the most important thing is the love you share, and your future happiness together.
What ever course you embark on in your business, I wish you the very best of luck, but money is not everything.
Ask you Mrs what she wants in life, and go with that.

[Moderator David@stives]

Thanks guys for your kind words

I got a lump in my throat reading your repys.

I went to bed at 12.00 last night and only tossed and turned for an hour so didnt have a bad sleep, woke up at 5.30am and got to work at 6.00pm, only just got back an hour ago 8.00pm.

I dont know what it is but i get really down at weekends but  didnt feel to bad today.
 I think when work stacks up I feel smothered, What else worries me is when we take on new big jobs especially now we havent got any staff , just me and my trusty wife worked 14 hours today, When we got out of the vans we could hardly stand up straight and walked like John Wayne, we are back at work again at 6.00 am, even after today we are still behind.

We got a big job out of the way today which was worrying me, i feel a bit better, i thought i had grossly underpriced it but it worked out ok.

You guys have really given me a lift and I thank each and every one of you. I really appreciate your replys

Dai

Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.

Dave

[dai]

Dai

Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.

Dave.

Yes I would enjoy that, I must make an effort to go to the next show. Dai

[jonah]

I just stumbled across this thread , and I just wanted to give my observations .    I worked in a warehouse for ten years , and saw many managers/directors come and go !  The only one in all that time that got everyones respect , including mine was the most humble, approachable , down to earth prince of man called Roy .    His secret . . . . . . He wanted your input and ideas no matter what your position in the company .   When he saw that you had a good aproach to work , he would put you on every course available ,and really made you feel good about yourself .    I used to work up to 70 hrs a week because I enjoyed my work  .      Secret is to find a person with the right work ethic , and nurture them , and you will reap the rewards IMHO

[Helen]

I just stumbled across this thread , and I just wanted to give my observations .    I worked in a warehouse for ten years , and saw many managers/directors come and go !  The only one in all that time that got everyones respect , including mine was the most humble, approachable , down to earth prince of man called Roy .    His secret . . . . . . He wanted your input and ideas no matter what your position in the company .   When he saw that you had a good aproach to work , he would put you on every course available ,and really made you feel good about yourself .    I used to work up to 70 hrs a week because I enjoyed my work  .      Secret is to find a person with the right work ethic , and nurture them , and you will reap the rewards IMHO

So what is that secret then?
We have always acted like you say with staff, encouraging. including, listening and the like. Some of them reacted well to it, but most didn't!
Some took advantage of this style of management and we had to reign them in, which 9 times out of 10 meant they told us where we could shove it! I Hear what you are saying, but there is no magic formula to employing someone, just a lottery.

[Helen]

Thanks guys for your kind words

I got a lump in my throat reading your repys.

I went to bed at 12.00 last night and only tossed and turned for an hour so didnt have a bad sleep, woke up at 5.30am and got to work at 6.00pm, only just got back an hour ago 8.00pm.

I dont know what it is but i get really down at weekends but  didnt feel to bad today.
 I think when work stacks up I feel smothered, What else worries me is when we take on new big jobs especially now we havent got any staff , just me and my trusty wife worked 14 hours today, When we got out of the vans we could hardly stand up straight and walked like John Wayne, we are back at work again at 6.00 am, even after today we are still behind.

We got a big job out of the way today which was worrying me, i feel a bit better, i thought i had grossly underpriced it but it worked out ok.

You guys have really given me a lift and I thank each and every one of you. I really appreciate your replys

Dai

Thanks, I think I was happier with the thrill of the chase when i first started out, just reading your posts keeps me smiling, i will pay you avisit one day, would love to have a pint with you.

Dave

The thrill of the chase is good, but sometimes you just have to say no. Glad you feel better about things, but hey find something to occupy your mind at the weekends other than work.
So you are behind with work....explain to the custies, they will understand...and if they don't maybe they are just not worth having

[jonah]

I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt 

[gary evans]

Hope things are improving Dave for you, i,m similar ,but, re-organising a lot now. Def. some good advice from everybody.

I,ve just been to the Lake District, slept about 8 hours every night, lovely. No work stress at all. Come back, & usual lad been off 2 1/2 weeks & he,s ill, I,m having to reschedule & re-book left right & centre. Just in office cancelling some jobs then off to start schools.

A good thread from Gordon about working or Managing, i,m looking at similar, but, just windows & me covering all other work inc. office. To many hats gives one big headache.

All the best, & hope you have the sunshine its p-----g it down here

Gary

[Helen]

I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt 

But whose gonna be mine    

[jonah]

I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt 

But whose gonna be mine    

We are all here for you Helen 

[Helen]

I think Helen should be the cleanitup agony aunt 

But whose gonna be mine    

We are all here for you Helen 

oooh ta   

[dai]

The difficult thing in our game, is not to let the employees know what we are charging.

When we work in an office or factory, we don't know what profits we are generating for our employer,
when we work for a window cleaning company, we know exactly how much we are worth.
I worked for a guy back in the 1950's, we knew what we were earning on domestic work, but he kept what he charged for commercial to himself.
Human nature being what it is, employees will do the sums and come up with the answers, they won't think about the actual costs associated with being an employer, they will only think I'm making this, and he only pays me that.
If you are lucky enough to find a really bright lad, he will pick your brains and store all the knowledge gained for the day he breaks away on his own.
Lets be honest, we would do the same.

I bet that the most successful window cleaners today, are the ones that served their time working for a successful window cleaner. They have learned the ropes where most of us have started out blind.
The only solution for employing in our game is to have an incentive scheme based on their productivity, again allowing for human nature, this has to be supervised to ensure all work is carried out to an acceptable standard. One way of achieving this could be to tell them that they won't get paid for any substandard work that needs to be redone. Of course this is no consolation if you lose the contract
. Ahh! the joys of being an employer

[Dean Aspects]

I have read this thread with some interest some good advice
I had a spell of employing and none of them were worth the effort and the stress i thought it was just me not being able to handle the pressure and stress of employing and having to wet nurse grown men but it seems we are all the same
How i dealt with it was all wrong and it made me think twice about doing it all again but the advice in this thread has made me think again maybe start off with subbing work out first though and ease my way into employing this time

Dean

[Helen]

The only solution for employing in our game is to have an incentive scheme based on their productivity, again allowing for human nature, this has to be supervised to ensure all work is carried out to an acceptable standard. One way of achieving this could be to tell them that they won't get paid for any substandard work that needs to be redone. Of course this is no consolation if you lose the contract
. Ahh! the joys of being an employer

Tried it, read the book, got the T-shirt and the so and so still wasn't happy. We advertised the position at £20k OTE. by month 10 he had surpassed that........ month 11 he asked for £40 more per week with no negotiating point (like he was going to set the rules!!!) we said no, but would look at the figures once he had done a full year....not good enough for him by end of month 11 he had gone.................now working for someone(not WC'ing) who pays £7.00 per hour. With us he was averaging out at £12.00 per hour....so not so bright afterall 

[gordonswindows]

Well done Helen

Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol

Another point on staff  is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.

The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.

I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.

YEAH RIGHT

The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.

Don't believe me  ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.

So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.

A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.

[Paul Coleman]

Well done Helen

Never give in to them there are sooooo many more staff out there to choose from but they only have a limited amount of quality employers so who needs who more lol

Another point on staff  is you must stop seeing them as friends or that they are doing you a favour or worse still that you cannot manage without them.

The minute they take your money they are no longer friends they are employees, you can bet they don't see you as a friend only as the wage payer.

I was given a book on the subject of staff of how important they are as individuals and how to mentor them support them wipe their a**es for them sorry but basically look after your staff and they will look after you.

YEAH RIGHT

The systems you set within your business are the important issues, they stick and work for you forever not like the staff. Its not what skills the staff have, it is can they follow your systems.

Don't believe me  ? how many different ways are there to clean a window? Just read this forum and there are hundreds of different styles.But as an employer there is only one way to clean a window ...your way.
If you can design a system of "how to" and show the staff how to follow this system you will be able to achieve the same standard of finish everytime, just as if you did it yourself.The individual person or style doesn't matter, all they have to do is follow the system and you will get the same results time and time again no matter who does it.

So it doesn't matter who the staff are or what they are like just as long as you can make them understand your system.

A people business no way, they don't matter they are just like a hammer is to a joiner, a tool to do your job.

Although it can sound cold, I think you probably are right about setting some pretty firm boundaries with employees.  It can help you in your business dealings but, in view of your past experiences, I believe it would be an effective way of maintaining good mental health too.  Thinking of the processes rather than the humanity behind it can be a good protection.  I don't know anything about running a business (other than as a sole trader) but I learnt plenty about mental health issues.  If I had walked into a therapy room some years ago and been honest with a therapist about what was REALLY going on in my head, I think I might have been institutionalised for a while.  How I managed to go so close to the edge without dropping off is still a puzzle to me when I look back.  I was greatly concerned about all the things I would have to change if I made the one big change I needed.  In the end I made that one big change and gradually the rest of the stuff fell into line around that.  It would make more sense if I went into the details but I don't think that's the right thing to do on here.  Suffice to say that the therapist asked my permission to have a student sit in on one of the sessions one day.  I know this sounds pretty paranoid but I refused as I was concerned that he wanted a witness to the things I was saying (I refused).
That's mainly why I hold back on my business and choose to remain a sole trader.  I have the intellectual capacity to expand my business, employ people and indeed, make a very large business out of it all.  What I don't believe I have is the ability to cope with the stress.  As they say, "Be careful what you wish for" (generic "you" that is).
Fortunately, it is possible to make some very decent money with WFP - even as a sole trader.

It's also why I'm glad to see Dave writing down a bit about his anxieties.  It can be very cathartic.