[herbiefatboy]

if you have 2 men working out of a van WFP how much work in money roughly do they have to do before you make any money yourself.with them on a average wage of £8 a hour. thanks

[ronnie paton]

that all depends of the compant what your expediture is.

i mean if you say pay £200 a week out the lads earn you £20  a hour for 40 hours each thats £1600 turnover a week less £200 expediure and wages of £640 so your making around 45- 50 % profit.

but the higher the expeniture the less profit.

[rah]

I was once told that you should make at least 40% of what they make, However, shorty after i decided to down size and go alone. More trouble than it was worth in my opinion, but each to their own, i now plod along making my measily crust, but boy am i a lot happier.

Rob.

[herbiefatboy]

thanks for your help so far

[herbiefatboy]

any one else got any ideas

[kris martin]

dont employ unless you know exactly what your doing we emploed a good friend for five years, and it was nothing but hassle, he was a hard work but not a good worker, had loads of talk about letting him go with my business partner but nevr too him and couldnt do it too him, just over a month ago he left too work with his dad.... THANK GOD FOR SMALL MERCIES... much better now, not employing yet but when we do we know where we went wrong before...

[gordonswindows]

Hi Hfb

 finding yourself with too much work it seems the simple answer is to employ but as you have heard from many others its not always that simple

Earlier figures of £1600 by Ronnie although true are based on a perfect world with perfect staff and an endless supply of valued clients, i can assure you this perfect world is hard to find.

What with rainy days, holidays and  sick days and that's just the clients!!!

There is also a very great difference  between being a busy window cleaner with too much work and being an employer. The skills you have that have made you busy and succesful as a window cleaner are not always the same ideal skills that you need as an employer.

As many have said before "its not worth the effort" but from someone who is trying to manage a business i can assure you that when it does work it is well worth the effort. It is not always as profitable in the short term as when working the ladders yourself and it is often frustrating when your reputation rests upon your employees actions and you can feel incredibly alone and isolated as the "boss" but if you persevere it really is rewarding to see others enjoying their work and sharing in your "success".

My advice if it's worth reading is if you have question's and reservation's about taking on the added responsibility reduced profitability and longer working days then stay on the ladders and cherry pick both the clients and the hours that you want, for the rest of you who already have or are about to become an employer good luck and please come forward and share your pro's and con's with the rest of us.

Good luck Herbie with whatever path you decide upon

regards

Gordon
 

[poleman]

At 40 or 50% you could suby out the work! thats what I have been thinking of doing, many companys around here do this

[NWH]

If your thinking of employing these days the way insurance is you have to be WFP all the way for upstairs work at least.

[Moderator David@stives]

I have employed, now its just family and now i am about to test the water again.

I have employed twice and got it wrong twice, this time i will have to tread more carefully.

My wife now turns over more money per week on her own than the 2 lads did, at least one of them would be ill , finish early etc.

We now have to much work for just the family and cant cope anymore, at times i get so down about it, i just dont know which way to turn.

What i think I am doing is selling all my domestics and staffing my commercial work, each month we are always about £1000 behind in work not done.

I am even considering jacking it all in and doing something else, if anyone made me a serious offer for my Commercial work I might just do that.

[NWH]

I have employed, now its just family and now i am about to test the water again.

I have employed twice and got it wrong twice, this time i will have to tread more carefully.

My wife now turns over more money per week on her own than the 2 lads did, at least one of them would be ill , finish early etc.

We now have to much work for just the family and cant cope anymore, at times i get so down about it, i just dont know which way to turn.

What i think I am doing is selling all my domestics and staffing my commercial work, each month we are always about £1000 behind in work not done.

I am even considering jacking it all in and doing something else, if anyone made me a serious offer for my Commercial work I might just do that.

That`s how i felt when employing,i had 2 fulltime and was constantly being mucked about by at least 1 of them,it got to the stage that i wasn`t enjoying it as much because each day there was some hassel to sort out that was nothing to do with work  1 thing or another, and it felt as though there was always a bill to pay.If you creamed of the good stuff and kept it in the family i bet you`d be better off,i know i was.I now sub some out and if i get any trouble i can just get someone else,i pay them what they`ve earn`t and that`s me done with them until the next time.

[Moderator David@stives]

NWH

We are big time better off, turnover is up 30 % since they have gone but with no wages to pay.

Work that one out

[NWH]

NWH

We are big time better off, turnover is up 30 % since they have gone but with no wages to pay.

Work that one out

That`s because your all working how they should have been,to be honest Dave i`ll bet in reality you should have been earning that before if not more.I am in the same position now earnings up by about the same and with no wages to pay so if you look at it like that in real terms your profits are well above 30%.Most people who work for you will only ever do the minimum amount they can get away with as you know,i`ve had all the excuses you could ever dream of as you have,it does begin to make you think if it`s worth it.My mum always says look for the best in people son.

[gordonswindows]

Hi Dave

I think it is because your wife cares so much more about your business than any employee did, she obviously put's in that little bit of extra effort as it yours (hers).

About the lack of wages being paid it may seem like that but surely your wife will be earning her share or as partners won't she or you at least have to share the extra profit tax bill?

I am far from an expert and I continue to make mistakes as an employer but having found dependable and motivated staff who although make mistakes sometimes and frustrate me at other times the fact that they are allowed to learn from these mistakes allows them to grow in confidence and begin to enjoy working as part of a team.

We also share the same goals,to make money together and to be the clients first choice within our trade.
The benefits of our pooled experience and individual talents brings us together and perhaps produces that same great work ethic and attitude that your wife displays.

Your remarks about jacking it all in are far from surprising as this is what i meant about being alone as the boss, nobody appreciates the work you do the time you spend working but not actually cleaning windows, the way your expensive equipment gets cared for or not, the continuous bills etc etc and everyone else thinks its there hard work that makes the boss his profit.

Don't you dare give up don't let the so and so's grind you down, keep interviewing and you will find the good employees the other problem is going back to how it was , i may be wrong and i am sure someone here will tell me but it is like an old girlfriend she never is like what you remembered when you go back because as in life your business does move on and it does change

Keep your chin up and you will win through and i need to believe in someone else too

regards

gordon

[Moderator David@stives]

Gordon

Thanks for your words, they are quite encouraging.

As for my wife she is a real trouper and I  dont think i appreciate her as i should.

I always do the early shift 6.00 - 9.00 this is where some good money is made, then back home to sort out whos going where.

We either go together or head off in 2 different directions until about 4.00 pm then we go together or I go off on my own to any extra commercials, last week we picked up 17 schools on top of an already full work load, we are trying to do them after 4.00 so it  doesnt interfere with our schedule to much, it would be pointless having them if we have to delay our other work to do them.

I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.

I go over every big job in my mind and probably clean it a dozen times in my mind through the night.

I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.

I now know what Rob Mclean M-Clean meant when he said he sat there in his van and cried when he took a big step forward.

The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.

Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.

Chears for now

Dave

[Art]

Dave, have you tried paying employees a basic rate and having a time and attendance bonus payable monthly ?

[Moderator David@stives]

Art

That is something i will consider,

 one thing i am sure about is that i am going to sell off my domestics, it should free up about a week a month, which will give me more time to keep my commercials on time and do the extras i never get around to

[Art]

Well Dave good luck to you and i'm sure it'll work out well.

Think back to the days of the sponge and the rusty sierra and then think what you've acheived. That should keep you going.

That was one post that i'll never forget.

Arthur

[Alex Wingrove]

i always thought that commercials would be much easier to employ on,, just because of the size and being able to monitor it closer,


couldn't you send your wife off to the domestic, or, just leave the cream of the domestic, so that she doesnt have to work so hard, but you can still earn really good money for even less work,

and you employ on your commercial, with either you working with them or them on their own,

thing is with the financial situation i would stick with my loyal residential clients they are far less likely to dump you than a commercial

[Paul Coleman]

Gordon

Thanks for your words, they are quite encouraging.

As for my wife she is a real trouper and I  dont think i appreciate her as i should.

I always do the early shift 6.00 - 9.00 this is where some good money is made, then back home to sort out whos going where.

We either go together or head off in 2 different directions until about 4.00 pm then we go together or I go off on my own to any extra commercials, last week we picked up 17 schools on top of an already full work load, we are trying to do them after 4.00 so it  doesnt interfere with our schedule to much, it would be pointless having them if we have to delay our other work to do them.

I am getting pretty wacked out at the moment and I am not sleeping too much worrying about everything, I know i shouldnt but it is so hard not to, I lay awake going over and over everything in my mind, probably one of the reasons i spend so much time on here so it occupies my mind.

I go over every big job in my mind and probably clean it a dozen times in my mind through the night.

I havent shared this with anyone as of yet so it is good to get it off my mind.

I now know what Rob Mclean M-Clean meant when he said he sat there in his van and cried when he took a big step forward.

The bigger you get and the bigger the jobs and the stress levels start to go through the roof.

Sorry to bore you all with the way i feel at the moment.

Chears for now

Dave

That's the main reason I've kept things relatively simple Dave.  Stress blighted my life some years ago (non work issues) and I vowed never again.  I would rather settle for less than go through that again.  I take the view that our time on this planet is finite and if I spend too much of it stressed out and unhappy, then it will have been wasted.  I don't have any business suggestions to offer as I've not been where you are.  I did try to develop ways of coping wirth stress so that I could cope with my lifestyle and circumstances.  The text books on such subjects are all very well but the suggestions didn't work for me.  In the end, I had to do it the other way round.  I had to change my lifestyle and circumstances to what I could cope with.
I thought I was admitting defeat.
The greatest irony is that in admitting defeat, I actually became the winner.
Life can really be bizarre like that sometimes.