[Kev R]

Kev

How many staff have you got ?

I am still sub contracting. I have 5 sub contractors at present. I am unsure of the way forward. I think I need to bite the bullet and go Vat registered and employ as the profits are higher but I am worried about losing quality and going back to no wage again for the short term.

I read an article about sole traders never doing that well, where as people that merged or became partners or limited companies with directors succeeding. To be honest I could do with some sound advice

[Alex Wingrove]

Heres my opinion

£350.00 for one days work is broken down to about £35.00 per hour - whats wrong with wanting to earn that.

Rob

Most people would tell you to take a walk...oh they did...I rest my case 

Please dont get nasty with me, i didnt get this one, but there is no difference if i earn 45 for an hours work on one house and 350 for 8 hours on another is there really, they both pay the same,

he wanted the work done, so he would have to pay, but it depends how much i guess

[Rob_Mac]

Would you see it as good advice if it was given or would a high and mighty approach blur your view!!!

Rob

[Kev R]

Alex in my experience its fine to charge £350 plus for commercial jobs in fact I charge much more for some clients but domestic clients don't like paying that sort of money. The day that I have all my days filled rain or shine at that level I guess I will quote the same but until then I fill my slack times with "portfolio" domestics.  I guess thats the answer if your that busy that Its worth £350 a day to you then cool but if your not earning this everyday maybe taking a little less will bring more in the long term? I concentrate on commercial and I go a little easy on my "portfolio" domestics until the day I can sell my domestics for a large amount and be completely 100% commercial everyday with employees on the books and make at least £350 a day profit  

[Kev R]

Would you see it as good advice if it was given or would a high and mighty approach blur your view!!!

Rob

I am always interested in advice.  I am willing to learn. Like I said I do need advise as progressing from here is the hard bit, or at least it feels that way.

If you would like a one to one and you can spare the time I would be interested in you opinion and your advise -  M-Clean? Call me - my numbers on my websites 

[Rob_Mac]

I'm playing with you -I think you have done incredibly well - there is a lot to be proud of in what you have achieved.

I don't know Carillion would offer a 25 year service contract but you have the paper work.  Whatever you do now will cost you a great deal of time and there will be many head aches - I know!!!

I go away on Tuesday for a week I will ring you when I get back

Rob

[mr D]

m-clean uk is that maclaren?

sainsburys used to have a company called inter clean do there cleaning they subed about 20 stores on the south coast out to my dads company some years back. then pulled the plug when they asked them to drop the price by 20million.

you took over the contract then slowly got rid of all the sub contract w/c replacing them with instore min wage cleaners. is this right?

oh this aint a nasty post just seeing if this is the right m-clean.

[mr D]

my dad werent to fussed as some, not all, but some of the stores were a pain to get to.

and really not being funny but because i used to clean alot of sainsburys i always look at there windows to see how there being kept and to you as the company director feed bac is there awfull mate. i would get a grip of you area reps and make sure there sorted!

thing is lots of things can go un-noticed in a store cleaning wise but some thing EVERY one notices and is a real reflection on a stores over all standard of cleaning is there windows. i hope you agree.

[Rob_Mac]

Mr D

No your way off - We have been on the programme for 18 months now - are you refering to internal cleaners.

The work that we do is purely external and an amalgamation of lots of different services. M-CLEAN UK is my last name McLean.

I wasn't even in cleaning back then. Sorry to hear about your dads business

Rob

[Rob_Mac]

I think you are viewing me as bigger than I am as well.

The stores that we clean we do do the external window cleaning on - sometimes - there wouldn't be any reason to complain about that.

We are very proud of our work and bad windows or any other cleaning just wouldn't happen

Rob

[mr D]

dont apolagise mr. my old man is making a mint!

hes subs window cleaning from a french company that has some of the biggest contracts in this contry.

i think it was back in 2005 he lost them. as i said it was kinda a blessing in descise. inter clean were a good company but they made the biggest error by putting all there eggs in one basket. there MD wasnt to fussed as he had already made more than his fair share but IMO sainsburys starndards have dropped alot since, round here any way!

[mr D]

i've prob got the wrong end of the stick. i thought you said you had the contract for sainsburys plc cleaning meaning the cleaning of there stores.

am i right in saying you do the grounds matanance? and only of a slect number of stores? do you sub the work from some one else or contracted direct from J Sainsburys?

[Rob_Mac]

We do all the hard surface cleaning, walls, cladding,service yards, compactor areas, chewing gum/graffiti removal, high level and drain jetting.

I agree with you that the stores are a mess but so are a lot of the other high street names - from my point of view this is all good as my market is wide open and the longer they leave them the dirtier they get - someones got to clean them - might as well be me!!!

Rob

[Kev R]

I'm playing with you -I think you have done incredibly well - there is a lot to be proud of in what you have achieved.

I don't know Carillion would offer a 25 year service contract but you have the paper work.  Whatever you do now will cost you a great deal of time and there will be many head aches - I know!!!

I go away on Tuesday for a week I will ring you when I get back

Rob

We were surprised at the contract length too  I look forward to your call 

[mr D]

so true, so true.

ive noticed the biggest name company with the worse kept stores by far is mac donnalds. being as tight as a ducks but they get there mostly migrant workers to do the bulk if not all of there cleaning. which is dont to a simeler standard as our hospitals. lol

one worth canversing there guys. too big for little old me to chase but if you have to means and man power....

[frames to panes]

This £35 an hour charge is really to cover the lost time between jobs, fuel etc so surely there is no need to expect such a high income from a solid days work? There can't be many on here who earn £300+ solid day in day out. Who rates a days work at £350? Builders, plasteres painters? Not round here they don't.

[AuRavelling79]

This £35 an hour charge is really to cover the lost time between jobs, fuel etc so surely there is no need to expect such a high income from a solid days work? There can't be many on here who earn £300+ solid day in day out. Who rates a days work at £350? Builders, plasteres painters? Not round here they don't.

Very good point.

My bro and I just hired a s/e builder (on the basis of quality not price) this week to damp proof the back pf my mum's little terrace, hack off some old plaster inside and replace and waterproof the pebbledash around the job.

It took him two days and it cost just shy of £600 including vat. Assuming £50 for materials and derv and the vat I reckon he made about £225/230 a day. And he knocked £50 off the quoted price cuz he knew my bro and he finished early on day two. (About 3.30pm)

Another mate into roofing for a weeks (5 days) job charges himself at £1000 and makes a bit on materials and any labour. Say, wage £1000 plus a couple of hundred profit. So even at that level he gets to £250 a day.

If he goes to replace a bit of guttering or a couple of tiles he'll charge £100 plus materials and the job might only take two hours. But then he might not have another job 'til the afternoon.

As Ian Giles says:- don't forget the days where you don't work, or you pick up the kids, or have an extra half hour in bed. They all knock the average.
Economy of scale see? If you want my cheeks for month, I'll do it for 3 grand (if I had the time), for a week, I'll do it for a grand (if I had the time) for a 7/8 hr day, £225/250. half a day? £150 and I'll start an hour early. Less than that and it's per job and depending on the mood I can go like Billy Whizz or Brian the snail!

[Alex Wingrove]

i guess overall it doesnt matter, you win some you lose some

[frames to panes]

True Alex, and if you've got plenty of work then you havn't lost anything, but if you had got it then what a bonus day that would be.

[Paul Coleman]

I agree with your pricing Alex , 1 1/2 times for insides is spot on and £1 for downstairs and £1.50 for upstairs windows is also fine (if not a little low) - i am in the same area as you (SE) If the bloke had that many windows then that is how many windows he had. When someone has more windows than someone else why should your window price go down ...... ok there maybe a £4 front only merchant who may take it on and be killing himself for next to nothing but unfortunately that is what we are up against. Keep your prices and move on.

I think that "economy of scale" can kick in after a certain point - i.e. only needing to set up once, no time or fuel used up on drive betweens and stuff like that. The choice then is whether to pocket all the benefits of "economy of scale" yourself or whether to give the customer some of that benefit.  I could take £350+ from a day if I lumped all my best work into one day - even with a bit of driving.  Where I would be hesitant though is in asking that from one budget.  Doing say, 7 x £50 jobs in a day would be easier for me to ask for than £350 in one job lot.  So it's not the actual amount turned over but how it's spread around.
Before I get slated for talking about earnings on here, there are very few jobs on my books where I can earn that well and many of them were the ones that benefitted most from switching to WFP.  Also, the way my round is laid out, the best work wouldn't necessarily fall on the same days.