[rosskesava]

Sorry but yeah yeah yeah. WFP's poles are everything.

Earn tons with them.

We've just got a large contract worth about £350 for a mornings work (9am till about 12.30pm) for 2 of us once every 4 weeks. All because the person doing it before used WFP's and lost the contract and there's no ladders involved. To do the outsides is a doodle from the insides because the windows flip over. Some (in an OAP home) didn't want their windows done and the water running down the windows underneath of those having their windows done etc etc. I know some will write but what if this and what if that he should have done this and he should have done that but we saw for ourselves re the state of those windows underneath etc etc.

We have £23 000 pa worth of commercial work and almost all of it would not be worth doing with WFP's and it's all from ground level.

Having said that, we will be buying the sytem later this year as we do have work that a WFP system would be quicker and easier and safer  for (and more profitable).

But WFP is not the be all and end all and everything.

The thing about ladders though and the potential of falling off and that, I think, is the real issue. There has not been one day when I havn't thought about it.

I never ever take a chance with ladders and I know someone who done his back a very very serious injury with WFP's.  I bet that never gets mentioned does it? He is 40 and will never work again.

[cleanandmean]

I remember a while back some one wrote in the message boards on here that they had writen a book called so you want to be a window cleaner, and they made claims that they could canvess new work at 55-75 quid an hour and earn between    36 - 55 quid an hour doing the actual cleaning...........

That person was told to stop dreaming...........it couldnt be done and the such by the Proffesional old boys who have been doing it since god was a boy...........

these wild claims are well outdated now, so i guess it was crap after all.................

I have updated the book ''SO YOU WANT TO BE A WINDOW CLEANER'' and come up with the real figures that can be achieved from window cleaning and so it is that I consistantly canvess between 67 -100 quid an hour in new work and clean 42 - 63 quid an hour, amazing what you can achieve when you think outside the box, isn't it?..................and as for American, Motivational stuff hows this for a corker........i thought of this one aswell.......the big ships head out in search of paradise but the driftwood allways gets washed up with the tide............ .........P.S If you would like a copy of ''SO YOU WANT TO BE A WINDOW CLEANER'' And see how you could earn more from your proffession then feel free to mail me : libertynewmedia@aol.com

[AuRavelling79]

Hello Cleanandmean:- I like the ship analogy!

The safest place for a ship is the Harbour - but that's not where ships are designed to be.

Mind you the "AURORA" hasn't got too far!  

Then again I wouldn't want to have been on a ship in Pearl Harbor!

No Offence, just joking!

[easycleanwindows]

I never ever take a chance with ladders and I know someone who done his back a very very serious injury with WFP's.  I bet that never gets mentioned does it? He is 40 and will never work again.

How did he injure himself with a wfp?
How do people injure themselves picking something up?
Because they havent had the training or dont know what they are doing.

You say you never take chances on a ladder?what stability device do you use and do you plumb left or right if the ground is uneven?

[PPC]

Rosskesava,
                     Im am inclined to entirely disagree with you  here. You sweeping statement about ' WFP not the be all and end all' is in fact your opinion based upon NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever!

For those w-cleaners considering expansion into or changeover to WFP cleaning the benefits are very well documented on here and other forums. Also 1 reasonably good paying contract a profitable company does not make!

Sure - the previous company may have used WFP technology to clean that particular contract, however nobody claimed that every piece of glass should or could be cleaned with WFP's. What is worth remebering is that each contract should be assessed and cleaned based upon the tools you have at your disposal.

Clearly in this case water falling onto a customers window which were not part of the paying contract needed consideration into whether WFp was viable or sensible.

And so to the entire point of my post - WFp are quite simply better in every department than tradional methods. Our teams only use blades for entrances and fire exits that pose a H&S issue. Other than that WFp is quicker, cleaner and more comprehensive it the cleaning it perfoms than your fastest cleaner on speed!

Let me qualify this with a very ordinary example. Yesterday i carried out a site check on our least experienced team working at a well known commercial client. I watched him clean (WFP) 60 downsatairs 3ft x 3ft windows on the ground floor of an office complex in just short of 10MINUTES. REMEMBER this is including sills, frames and the glass, something that you cannot profess to do from the inside!!

Traditionally that was 45minutes work (not including sills, frames) and made the employee concerned a very well paid chap indeed     And our client overjoyed at the final overall appearance of their premises now EVERYTHING is being cleaned!

So my dear Rosskesava - by the time you get your new system i for 1 will be very pleased to hear you say you still use tradional methods when your WFp equipment is quicker, better, cleaner and much much more profitable.

Any attempt on your part to contradict any of the facts represented to you here will only serve to highlight your ignorance and blinkered perpective of the truth concerning WFP and their application.

And to any cleaner reading this thread and thinking others have mislead you on this thread.  Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you 

And herein lies the answer to this very first question.

Regards

Gary Hennell

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

[AuRavelling79]

Interesting post PPC - I agree that the preponderance of opinion among those that have used WFP for sometime is that they'd never go back to traditional methods, but for you to say "And so to the entire point of my post - WFp are quite simply better in every department than traditional methods. " after showing your own examples where caution is required is to slightly overstate the case.

However your final point (with apologies to JFK I'm sure) "And to any cleaner reading this thread and thinking others have mislead you on this thread.  Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you  " is very apt. Bravo!

Many here don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and I think I support Matt's(?) approach to break in customers gently. Then within a few months you'll be cleaning more, earning more, more safely and more quickly and you can then choose whether to keep and increase the price of, sell, or drop the small percentage of your round that still lends itself to trad. methods.

And the £200 day would be routine.

[rosskesava]

Hi Gary

My friend was doing a 3rd story set of windows. He says a gust of very strong wind suddenly sprung up and that there was virtually no wind before that. The gust took the pole sideways and he took about 20 sideways steps wih it. Had it then come down it would have been onto the glass roof of a restaurant front. He says he struggled for a minute or so then the wind dropped and he carried on but he can remember a twinge of pain in his upper back. He canceled his work for the rest of that day because that twinge rapidly became seious pain.

Two weeks later he had an operation to try and rejoin some tendons or something. He's still in severe agony most of the time and yes, he had been on 2 proper training courses.

He's now seen loads of specialists etc etc and he will not work again and the pain will be there untill he dies.

                     Im am inclined to entirely disagree with you  here. You sweeping statement about ' WFP not the be all and end all' is in fact your opinion based upon NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever!

It is not a sweeping statement but obvious. And just how do you know I have no experience what so ever? Have you been with me every second for the past 3 years?

Please explain to me how you'd clean windows on the 3rd floor in a large shopping center while it is open? Take the vehicle up in the lift? 

That is partly what I meant.

Also, I cannot believe I know the only w/c in England to sustain an injury due to WFP's?

Pulling a resistance whilst holding a heavy'ish weight in an unatural position and then moving that weight up and down in front of you especially while looking upwards? I suggest you ask someone like an osteopath about that one for yourself.

That is the other part of what I meant.

If you gave me the choice of potential injury from WFP's or potential injury from the top of a ladder it is obvious what I would choose but that does not mean WFP's are the answer to everything window cleaning with zero risks and zero drawbacks. That was nearer to my point which you seemed to have missed. Not - is, or are, WFP's better than or worse than the traditional methods. Or are you implying there is no injury risk and also especially no drawbacks with WFP's which you seem to have done from the quote below?

So my dear Rosskesava - by the time you get your new system i for 1 will be very pleased to hear you say you still use tradional methods when your WFp equipment is quicker, better, cleaner and much much more profitable.

Again - the 3rd floor of a shopping center when it can only be done when open? How about a very large 4 storey building with 5ft wide balconies in front of every window? Or the basement windows (80 large paines) that has iron bars at street level all around it and the only access is either a lift or internal stairs.

I'm also not your 'dear' anything. That is obvious sarcasm and from my point of view - it has no place on this forum. The next paragraph is meant to be sarcastic so as you know I know what you are doing. Just try to ignore it in the same way you wanted me not to be able to reply to your posting. I bet you just have to reply to something in this posting.

I realise you are a proffessional and possibly afflicted with company lingo and putdowns as a matter of course but your last comment (the drab one below about what can WFP do for you) made me think that all that went before was a typical glib sales pitch that also made you feel good when you read what you'd wrote. Why write the company name after your posting? Are you feeling that you need beat your chest to show that you can prove you are the best and can only be right? I have no such stamps after my name - just a simple 'Ross'. The words 'Pinnacled Proffessional Cleaning Ltd' makes you obviously an expert and I am in awe of your wisdom.

Read this post again and ask yourself not what you can't do with WFP but what WFP can do for you 

And .... we will be buying a system later this year.

Also, Easycleanwindows - we use all that standard stuff with ladders as our veiw is that the small cost of improving safety with ladders is always worth it and I would be very happy if I never went up a ladder again and sod the work we may (or may not) loose.

Ross

[PPC]

Oh dear,
              I seem to have upset your sensibilities a little Ross. Well that's life im afraid. What could have been seen as two opposite opinions by those that have read your posting on this subject will instead view a childish outburst in a pathetic attempt to lash out at anyone who has a different point of view to yourself.

Whist not altogether unexpected, i neither have the desire nor time to become embroiled in a online slagging match with an ill informed, bad mannered twit which your comments reveal you to be.

You have had your say - And not all of us agree with your perspective, and seeing as you constantly refer to this 1 contract at a shopping centre that appears to be your only arguement for an entirely negative perspective towards WFP operators who in earlier posts were trying to explain the earnings potential through such systems; I can only imagine that this contract must centre around the core of your flagging business and therefore represents entirely your apparent inferiority complex displayed in your small minded attitude exhibited in your last article!

Suffice it to say that I realise that you may think that all of the content of the post was meant for you. And in that typically self indulgent world you live in, you will be equally dismayed to find that it was for the benefit of those that should not listen to the ravings of ppl that have little better to do than write about their commercial profits (or lack thereof) as a means of belittleing Vince and others who were trying in the first instance to give people encouragement for which the likes of you should be enternally grateful.

I would have been far more dignified to have accepted a difference of opinion on your part me thinks. Instead we will all have to settle for a childish tantrum which you appear to have no control over!

I shall not grace any of your idiotic responses with a reply as I feel it is below me to pick on the mentally afflicticed.

Gary Hennell

Managing Director

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

[rosskesava]

Hi Gary

Managing Director

Pinnacled Professional Cleaning Ltd

 



Ross

Managing Director

One dirty cloth and a mop Ltd

ps I also sell the Big Issue in my spare time to suppliment my income and .......... we will still be buying a system this year for obvious reasons

[rosskesava]

 Hi Gary



I bet you've read this. Just to see if there are any other postings................

Have fun in the arguements. Then the debate is worth it. Don't get too serious and too caught up in the rights and wrongs. We are just human and prone to make mistakes.

R-E-L-A-X

Don't get stressed. Take it easy. I do. Whether WFP's or otherwise. Stress free is the best way.

Things that get the heart pumping are not good unless it's excercise ( or sex  ).

Tomorrow I'll be out there with my mop and squeege and you'll be out there with your WFP's.

We are all earning a living and in that, we have a common goal.

Cheers

Ross

[windows_chepstow]

No I disagree with Rosskevwatsit,

You should take everything you read in here seriously, and if your view differs, state in plain English - why you are right, and everyone else wrong.  It also helps if you try and be as scathing and sarcastic as possible.

It makes for interesting threads.  I've thoroughly enjoyed this one; and the one I put in a similar forum.  You should have seen a small minority of people who thought I was having a dig; biting me back.  I really was well chewed there. 

So get wound up - writing whilst angry is entertaining and good for the soul.  Just remember not to get too personal. 

[rosskesava]

Hi windows_chepstow

Maybe I used the wrong words - 'have fun in the arguements' .

Possibly 'enjoyment' would have been a more suitable word.

PPC's posting seemed to me to contain anger that in the end goes no where as I am still doing exactly the same as I was before his posting. In other words, my life has not changed one bit where as PPC has given himself stress.

PPC was also blatantly rude, made stupid assertions based on little information and missed the point anyway.

As for getting 'bitten' - great isn't it but I can't get wound up by it. It focuses the mind. I love it.

Cheers

[karlosdaze]

I remember a while back some one wrote in the message boards on here that they had writen a book called so you want to be a window cleaner, and they made claims that they could canvess new work at 55-75 quid an hour and earn between    36 - 55 quid an hour doing the actual cleaning...........
libertynewmedia@aol.com

Yeah, it was you.
You outsold "Harry potter" if I remember correctly

[rosskesava]

Hi Karlosdaze

Just noticed your posting.

Of course that was me. I earn tons everyday and you should see the mansion I live in.

All from window cleaning.

Has anyone actually bought that book?

Ross

[Roy Harding]

I clean a job and get £244 for 3 1/2 hrs work, I do it every 4 wks and the lady said if I feel they need doing weekly do them. She is worth about 360 million, wish all my jobs where like that.

[rosskesava]

Hi Roy_harding

Nice job. Compromise and do it 2 weekly.

The best monthly job we have is for ASDA at one of their stores. It's all the first storey windows for the restaraunt and offices plus the foyer. 128 largish paines and about 30 odd smaller ones all next to each other. The first floor has to be done by standing on a tiled roof. (The tiles are safe to walk on and coated with a really good non slip stuff). The foyer is a bit more tricky because it has to be done from above with poles.

And yes PPC, it CANNOT be be done WFP's. They've tried that with 3 different companies. The last company soaked a lot of their customers (and couldn't get near the windows anyway) and one customer tripped over the hosing. They were not happy and that was one of the specs for the job - no WFP's.

PPC - can your ego take that? A spec from a large company stating no WFP's under any circumstances?

They can't get any large company to do it because of the risks which aren't anything really. The angle on the roof is so slight that for all intents and purposes, it's flat. Even if we slipped, there's a walk way at the bottom and a 3 foot high wall.

The job pays £300 for 3 of us for about 2 extremely hard hours work including setting up etc and our method of working is approved by ASDA's own HSE rep.

[rosskesava]

Hi PPC again.

Aka:- Gary Hennell

Managing Director

Pinnacled Professional Cleaning Ltd


Guess what?

We got another job where a WFP company had been sacked.

The reason - the company concerned stated that the hosing used was a HSE violation in terms of staff tripping over it. To clean the windows with WFP's meant that the hosing went across a busy walkway between two buildings. There was also the problem of water on granite flooring which was also a HSE thing. Also, they ended up with water on the wrong side of the windows. Why the company concerned didn't go back to using a mop and squeegie for that job is a mystery to me.

It's on the ground floor.

Having said that, and to repeat myself, we will be buying a system later this year. We have a number of jobs where WPF's would be a god send.

My original point as posted above, is that WFP's are not everything. You stated that WFP's were.

As for our flagging business that you mentioned - I was out tonight selling the big issue to buy a cloth to keep it all going.

I eargely await your put downs and sarcasm.

You wrote in your last reply - 'I shall not grace any of your idiotic responses with a reply as I feel it is below me to pick on the mentally afflicticed.'

Go on - pick on me. Please........... 

[windows_chepstow]

Go on PPC,

Reply.  I bet you could pick on him for something.  What about his punctuation?  There's always something.