[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

This is remaining a good topic because it is a polite but frank excahange of views.

Neil,

To say suppliers are lying is a bit strong but the science speaks for itself and as i have tried to debunk some of the marketing myths surrounding chemicals, Simon has done the same thing for machines.

In terms of pure performance a truck mount will outperform a porty because it has more power, in the physics sense as well as in common language.

I have been in the postion of being able to afford a TM but have held back for lots of reasons, mainly associated with the type of work I aim for and my web presence, for example today I have had a dry CC job and a green CC job both a good prices .

There are a lot of customers who want this but most just want straightforward carpet cleaning.

Cheers

Doug

[Simon Gerrard]

The other thing that we have touched on yet is the RX20.
If you have an engine powered Truck Mount then you have the ability to run an RX20 and an RX20 will rocket your business skywards, if that's where you want to go.

If your a portable owner you just don't have that as an option and that restricts you to the domestic market, perhaps some light commercial work but that's it. That is not only a restriction in your market, but also in your earning capacity. With a Truck Mount and RX20 you can do pub and restaurant work and by lunchtime have a good few hundred quid in your pocket and a customer who will come back to you time and time again because you just did what they thought was almost impossible, or more importantly you just did what the last guy couldn't.

Simon

[spencer davies]

Ha ha,

I have got an RX20 that came with my TM, it is sitting in the garage at the moment, I haven't played with it yet!


S

[Simon Gerrard]

Spencer,
That should be a criminal offence
Simon

[Mike Osbourne]

Simon,

Whilst I totally agree with what you are saying about TM being better, you still seem to think everyone wants to clean or aspire to clean manky pubs and clubs with acres of carpet. This isn't the case and where your arguement is a little but flawed.

[Dave_Lee]

Back to the marketing aspect. A nice sign written van on a drive with the doors open and the TM running Is a stand alone marketing tool. Marketing is the tools that are there to draw attetion and create interest, and the TM does this on its own.
Once the enquiry is made the marketing has done its done its job, and demos or anything else form part of the SELLING.
Having equipment that impresses
 the would be client is one of the most cost effective forms of marketing there is.
Dave.

[liahona]

Mike, excellent comment.  I would rather clean one or two rooms instead of any club, pub or similar.

As for an RX 20, I wouldnt pay scrap metal value for one.

For huge yardage of carpet maybe they have a use but certainly not in a domestic situation.

As RX20 and other rotating machines will void most carpet warrenties on commercial and domestic textiles so I cant see much use for them.

Simon uses them to good effect as he had said so many times.  Just dont mess the carpet up or it is yours, no insurance companies will insure against damage as we as cleaners know they shouldnt be used.  Ignorance and or stupidity isnt covered by insurance.  Accidents are of course covered but choosing to use an RX20 or similar isnt an accident, it is a choice.

Best, Dave.

P.S.  I wont comment on the truck mount issue, enough has been said and most know my opinion.....

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

Simon,

Whilst I totally agree with what you are saying about TM being better, you still seem to think everyone wants to clean or aspire to clean manky pubs and clubs with acres of carpet. This isn't the case and where your arguement is a little but flawed.

simon is diffent then use he as alot of big jobs where we have none ! we use our t.m. for domestic use only and trust me it works !

when the porty sellers are selling there gear i was lead to belive that its not quite right due the only haveing  240volts to play with this holding back the portys power

 where a t.m. is not limated in this way hence it as more real power ?  is this ture

[Karl Wildey]

Its a good job Simon has a bit of common sense, or he would ruin loads of carpets, I mean fancy making a machine that ruins carpets, the mind boggles.

Of course it could be that some people have a closed mind and refuse to believe that either a TM, or RX20, could make they business better, and these same people had never used neither, com' on guys open your minds up.

[Neil Grainger]

MY mind is open, I just dont want to spend the money on it, as a sole trader i can service my clients with what i've got and they are always happy.

I know it could speed up cleaning times and make life alot easier by not needing to spend so much time on agitation and the like but its all down to expense for me and the fact I hate commercial work.

On some commercial jobs I wish i had it because I am knackered at the end of the day sometime's but thats it for me. I have never had it so cant miss it but i no it would be great if I had one.

[Mike Osbourne]

OK

How about this.

Someone with a portie with a couple of years experience buys a TM. He could sit at home and look at it or in the first three months of ownership he could......

Give us 5 proactive ways he could get business with it that he couldn't with his/her porty.

And we have already had pub demos.  



Now if you want to blow off about what kit you have then don't bother, but if you seriously want to convert people to 'seeing the light' surely some answers like this will go a long way to tip people over to the dark side.

[liahona]

Karl, what Simon does is what would appear to be, run a very succesful cleaning company.  I never said the RX20 would ruin a carpet, I just said it would void any warrenty or guarentee the carpet had, huge difference.  There is a company which I wont name that says how good their machines are on carpet tiles.  Yet the carpet tile company stipulates in writing that the said machines should not be used on carpet tiles.  But still the machine is made and is indeed used by many people on here.

Muck spreaders are used daily, even though they too are stipulated as not to be used on certain types of carpet.  Yet still they clean hundreds of yards of carpets.  These machines will always be made and while we, miss guided as it is in my opinion continue to buy them and think we clean, then the manufacturers will still make and sell them.

Best, Dave.

[mark shannon]

Sometimes Dave when it comes to cheap carpet tile acreage muck spreaders are the best option.

[Simon Gerrard]

Dave,
I wasn't  suggesting people use an RX20 for domestic jobs.

As RX20 and other rotating machines will void most carpet warrenties on commercial and domestic textiles so I cant see much use for them.
That is complete and utter rubbish designed no doubt to scare monger.

I was the first person to buy an RX20 in this country nearly twenty years ago and in that time I must have cleaned quite literally millions of yards of carpet and guess what, neither Hydramaster who make the RX20, or indeed myself have EVER had a claim from a customer regarding the voiding of carpet warranties, or any damage resulting from cleaning with an RX20.
Do you think Hydramaster are stupid and go ahead and build a machine over two decades that is going to be a liability to both themselves and their customers, I think not. But of course you know better than them.

They say ignorance is bliss, but I think your case, it's astonishing.
Simon

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

Dave,
I wasn't  suggesting people use an RX20 for domestic jobs.

As RX20 and other rotating machines will void most carpet warrenties on commercial and domestic textiles so I cant see much use for them.
That is complete and utter rubbish designed no doubt to scare monger.

I was the first person to buy an RX20 in this country nearly twenty years ago and in that time I must have cleaned quite literally millions of yards of carpet and guess what, neither Hydramaster who make the RX20, or indeed myself have EVER had a claim from a customer regarding the voiding of carpet warranties, or any damage resulting from cleaning with an RX20.
Do you think Hydramaster are stupid and go ahead and build a machine over two decades that is going to be a liability to both themselves and their customers, I think not. But of course you know better than them.

They say ignorance is bliss, but I think your case, it's astonishing.
Simon

well sorry to say you maybe need to do a iircc  corse as then you will find out that the rx20 WILL VOID  the warrentie that the mill puts on the carpet weather a rx20 as ruined a carpet or not before !

[Len Gribble]

Spot

Yes it called a dust-downer! used it on several occasions.

Mike

From the dark side I need to upgrade it’s as simple as that! Now down grading to MS on some jobs.  If anyone who is more or less local to me is thinking of going down the TM route e-mail me only got a Blazer but a lot better than my Ninja

Dave

By the time the customer get round to having it cleaned think the warranty/guaranty would have run out, (used your method on a rug a few weeks ago blinding results customer over the moon as for people walking by thankfully there wasn’t any lampposts)

Len

[colin thomas]

when i come across a carpet that is trashed there is nothing that cleans it and brings up the pile better than a rx20, when a carpet is that bad, who cares about warranties, i've never used it and had anything but a jaw drop because of the vast improvement.
to get back to the original post the one thing i would say to anyone is that if you can't sell carpet cleaning now, you wont be able to just because you have a truck-mount, it will make you do a better job but it doesn't guarantee work

colin

[liahona]

Simon, my apologies then if needed.  But most on here are domestic cleaners so I wondered why you would suggest to them to have an RX20.

I dont know about Hydramaster but do I think companies make machines and do things that will be a liability? Absolutely.  Cem dRy did it for many many years untill they changed their way of cleaning.  And in the meantime made millions if not billions in something that didnt work and ruined "some" carpets along the way but  hey good luck to them.

At least now they are raising the level in this industry and have changed the way they clean.

With my comments on the RX20, well what do you know, maybe I know more than you think I do.

If I say something I am not just usually right I am right.   I know it may upset some people but I do say things as they are. Or I will say it is my opinion which of course is just that.

Maybe you need to find out about what you do and how you do it and its relevance to the industry that you choose to be in.  

I do and know that what I do is supported by carpet mills, suppliers down to maintenance "people" who check out what should and shouldnt be used in this industry.

What you do I am sure works well and I am not questioning that at all.

Just you have said I was speaking rubbish when it now appears only one of us doesnt know what they are talking about, oh and it isnt me.

Best, Dave.

P.S.  Len, I am pleased for you.  No comparison is there?


I understand that the warrenties are long gone, just that we need to know what I have discussed.

I also have never said that an RX20 does or doesnt work.  I dont use them for obvious reasons but I know some that swear by them and by the results that they get.

Just for me and what I do I stand by not giving scrap value for them.

[Simon Gerrard]

Susan,
I wouldn't believe EVERYTHING you hear on a training course.
If it were true I am quite sure that Hydramaster would be warning their customers of the potential liability they may face when cleaning customers carpets with an RX while the carpet is still in warranty.

Simon

[elliott cleaning]

Have to agree with Simon.
RX20s', use them correctly & you will never have a problem with a carpet.  
Not quite sure of Dave's point, " Not saying a RX will ruin a carpet but will void the warranty".  He then goes on about a machine for carpet tile cleaning & the concerns the carpet tile manufacturer has with this.  Am sure Dave is a good carpet cleaner & understand many like his method of rug cleaning but he always posts here on running threads with " give me a ring & I'll fill you in on the details" or  " there is a company which I won,t name which says its machine can be used on carpet tiles ..... but the carpet tile supplier who is also not named doesn't advise this to be used".
Whats all this reluctance to post on this open forum yet have a phobia about giving full details.  We live in a free speech society. Spell it out.  Libel laws are very much less tough than they were 10 years ago.  You should be quite safe