[ChInEaPpLe PuNkS]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new to the window cleaning game.  Just setting up my round and its coming on well. But I've a question - and I'm sure you knowledgeable lot can help. I've heard of a local window cleaner who only applicates and squeegees; that's it, window done, no scrimming. He's well established with a large round. Is this common practice? I'd like to take it up myself but I'd leave with a window that's a bit messy around the edges. Now your probably all thinking "No he's just good with his squeegee.... dog - eared" etc, but thats not true. He does leave it a bit messy around the edges - but boy does he get round some houses. Can you get away with this or would customers complain? Do any of you guys do it this way. I'd love to stay with traditional window cleaning, just without the scrimming.

Thanks

Jon

[matt]

i know of a few who dont scrim, they just leave whatever they miss, they all have a BIG well established round, they turn up when they should, and people want that

its all down to training

personally i cringe when i see the work, BUT as they have said, they earn more than me, and its all down to training the customers

[Tussin]

If he dont scrim round the window and leavin it messy then he's probably charging them peanuts, cos they dont seem to be complaining. Personnally I scrim top and both sides but usually never bottom, it only takes a second and customers do like it.
Tussin

[Philip Hanson]

What Matt says is true.  Partly the ability to squeegee without "detailing" (wiping round with a scrim or microfibre cloth) comes with practice.  Do it often enough and you'll find you're able to leave the edges clean without any mistakes.

It also partly comes down to managing your customers expectations.  If you don't want to spend the extra time learning how to do it without leaving marks, then you'll need tolerant customers.

When doing commercial work, there is just no time to mess about with detailing.  You have to be able to clean a window to a commercial standard with one pass and no detailing.  Commercial customers are not nearly as exacting as residential, so this is rarely a problem for experienced window cleaners.

Its a skill well worth learning.  A tip: if you're using fairy or some other domestic detergent, it will be more difficult to get right than with a pro solution like GG4 or GG3.

-Philip

[Ian_Giles]

I agree with Phillip, you can't really get away without detailing on everything you do, but if you are skillful it will be at a minimum.
It takes a long time to develop your skill to the point where you can whip over a window and be confident that you don't need to detail it.
Without detailing you are also completely ignoring any of the frames, you can give a quick pass ovr the sills, but that is lip service only.
Although I use WFP now, when I was using traditional methods all the time, a single dry scrim would last me all day, I would also have a wet one for wiping sills, or going over the frames prior to using the applicator and squeegee.

You won't get away without detailing on windows that are really grubby, opening lights can often be done quicker by misting with a sprayer and cleaning with dry scrim or micro cloth, or even a dab or 2 with the end of the applicator and then scim clean, or wipe with a damp scrim and finish with a dry one.
Ditto of course for georgian panes of glass.

I do almost all commercial, and when I was using trad methods I would try wherever I could to have as little detailing to do as possible, but if you care about the quality of the work you do, you will still have to detail some of the work.
Applicator and squeegee alone isn't suficient on all work no matter how good you are

Ian

[Craig_Mawlam]

Learn How to Squeegee like a "Pro" on a BWCA 1 day Window Cleaning Skills Course. "Cutting the edge" with the squeegee so as the minimise the use of scrim is a popular aspect of the course.

Kind regards

Craig Mawlam
BWCA C&G NVQ Centre.

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)if you learn correctly you should not have to detail,thus saving time! there are lots of squeegee skills you will come across being shown them is a lot less hassle..to learn.

[AuRavelling79]

About two months ago I went from two plungers of Fairy per 5 litres water (5ltr fairy press top dispenser) over to a mix of 10mlGG4/tiny blob of fairy/5litres water - This reduces scrimwork considerably and less mopping up for cills.

Dog ear channel but change your blades (Unger soft) daily.

Scrimming is down to a minimum - rarely on frosted glass or upstairs windows. (Can't lean too far for safety reasons missus!)

How I do it:-

Soap to within half an inch to edge and top - take blade to window edges all round.
Wipe cill with old towel. (Rarely have to Dab obvious dribble with scrim)

I reckon I save an hour a day on average on domestic = £15/25 better off!
And 2 hours on commercial = £50/70 better off!

So whereas last year (on Domestic) a good dry day in December (poor light) = £100plus, this December it was routine for a 10.00am - 3pm shift. (Lazy me!)

If I want to stay out longer I wear my unger gloves and I don't worry about getting the scrim wet while using them like I used to.

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

personally I prefer to skim the edges as well as the window sills therefore leaving now runs or water on the sills. Yes it's fair to say it takes a little longer but then I've never had a customer complain about my work (yet) it's all down to personal choice but the way I see it is, if your'e going to charge between £7-00 - £10-00 for cleaning an average sized house do it right and you wont lose your customers infact you will gain more from recomendations.
Good luck
"Jay" GRAFTERS

[ChInEaPpLe PuNkS]

Ok thanks guys for your replies.

Just while some are on the subject of GG3/4 etc, I am actually using some sort of mid range detergent that I got quite a bit of for a good price. I've seen this GG4 talked about often. Should I definately change over to this? It is a lot more expensive. What I'm saying is will I benefit on the price:speed ratio?

Jon

[Duke]

no comment on this really...using a pole......but the bike looks nice, can't quite make out what it is though...I've got one too...mine's a 1200 Bandit....

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;)in my opinion In= have tried GG3, went back to fairy,I dont know what the fuss is about GG3 its not cheap!

[ChInEaPpLe PuNkS]

Duke it's a Bandit 1200. Brill bike. I bought it with that naff streetfighter headlamp on - its goin in the bin. You Northwest England?

[Duke]

Nope, I'm in Cheltenham.....mines a streetfighter too.....naked '97....but with loads of mods and twin headlights.

[mark f]

yeh nice bike jon! watch it out there this time of year though i came off my blade a month ago  still havnt got it back either!

 Anyway getting back to the squeegee! Ive reckon it all depends on the window. I reckon about 80% i dont have to touch up in anyway but there are always the awkward windows with the awkward seals that are harder to squeegee up to. But even with those i can do them so it is just one edge i have to wipe. But as for making money out of it, i think it is negligable. Any window cleaner worth his salt will check the window over after cleaning it and in that time you could quickly wipe round it anyway.

 Like Ian said 1 dry scrim and 1 wet lasts me a day, and like Terry said (by the way your quick but i reckon im quicker!! )i dont gg3 or gg4 either. I keep trying gg4 which is the one for my water area but i find i always go back to fairy. I actually found contrary to the advert that it bleeds onto the glass from the edges easier Hence i would have to repair the work with a scrim on most windows. Also when you top up your bucket it weakens quickly whereas fairy doesnt so much. Also everyone can see how dirty the water is cos there are no bubbles! Apparently it doesnt hack your hands up with is a bonus but that is one small benifit. Yet i know others who swear by it. So who am i to say!

[AuRavelling79]

Type "gg4 solution" into the search facility there is a good thread about this from Nov 2004.

Also, if you are thinking about a pole system soon you might want to move away from Fairy for a few months before you do so that you don't keep leeching detergent out onto the glass during the first 2/3 cleans.

[mark f]

thanks mate i had heard about that happening.

[larch]

try a Ettore brass squeegee with a 3mm overhang at the edges and when you learn how to use the overhang correctly the overhang will take the water off the edges all round. anti static liquid such as Unger Glimmer will help you to use the overhang with more ease. brass end clips always need to be used.