[Ian Lancaster]

Everybody seems to be getting very irate about this :

Let me try to clarify a few points.  Those of you opposed to franchising are perfectly entitled to you opinions, but you are suggesting that your opinions are the only valid ones and that anyone who disagrees must be wrong, stupid, sad or similar.

I am NOT using this forum to try to recruit franchisees, because

             1.  I don't need to, now that my franchise is becoming known locally, I have a waiting list.

             2.  Most, if not all who use this forum are already established window cleaners, or else well on the way to becoming so, and looking on here to gain ideas and information.

If you take the stand that because you have built your own business, then everyone else should do the same, and you are saying that anyone who isn't confident or capable enough shouldn't be allowed to become a window cleaner by any other method except as an employee of an established business.

WHAT ARROGANCE!!

One of my franchisees is an ex-employee of another local window cleaning business.  He tried to set up on his own, but didn't have the tenacity or confidence to canvass his own customer base, or manage his own business without some help.  He is nevertheless a very good window cleaner.  So you advocate that he should be banned from buying a franchise, in which he can earn three times what he could as an employee, and condemned to earn a pittance as an employee.

I have another ex employee of the same firm waiting to join me.

Another one is an ex-manager of a local (huge) branch of a well known DIY chain.  He's a graduate and ambitious.  He saw the potential of joining me, but did his research first - talking to other local window cleaners, asking how long they took to build their rounds, etc, and decided that because I guaranteed to supply £1000/week withing 6 months, he could leapfrog the building phase and get a flying start.  He may not stay with me, I don't know, but no franchisee is tied into an interminable contract.

Those of you who have built your own businesses and now enjoy the benefits, well done!!  You deserve your success, but you have no right to say to someone less capable "I did it on my own, if you can't do that then you shouldn't be allowed to do it any other way"

Cheers,

Ian

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

Not many franchises will guarantee £1000 a week turnover within 6 months, so well done in that aspect.

Dave

[Davo]

Everybody seems to be getting very irate about this :

Let me try to clarify a few points.  Those of you opposed to franchising are perfectly entitled to you opinions, but you are suggesting that your opinions are the only valid ones and that anyone who disagrees must be wrong, stupid, sad or similar.

I am NOT using this forum to try to recruit franchisees, because

             1.  I don't need to, now that my franchise is becoming known locally, I have a waiting list.

             2.  Most, if not all who use this forum are already established window cleaners, or else well on the way to becoming so, and looking on here to gain ideas and information.

If you take the stand that because you have built your own business, then everyone else should do the same, and you are saying that anyone who isn't confident or capable enough shouldn't be allowed to become a window cleaner by any other method except as an employee of an established business.

WHAT ARROGANCE!!

One of my franchisees is an ex-employee of another local window cleaning business.  He tried to set up on his own, but didn't have the tenacity or confidence to canvass his own customer base, or manage his own business without some help.  He is nevertheless a very good window cleaner.  So you advocate that he should be banned from buying a franchise, in which he can earn three times what he could as an employee, and condemned to earn a pittance as an employee.

I have another ex employee of the same firm waiting to join me.

Another one is an ex-manager of a local (huge) branch of a well known DIY chain.  He's a graduate and ambitious.  He saw the potential of joining me, but did his research first - talking to other local window cleaners, asking how long they took to build their rounds, etc, and decided that because I guaranteed to supply £1000/week withing 6 months, he could leapfrog the building phase and get a flying start.  He may not stay with me, I don't know, but no franchisee is tied into an interminable contract.

Those of you who have built your own businesses and now enjoy the benefits, well done!!  You deserve your success, but you have no right to say to someone less capable "I did it on my own, if you can't do that then you shouldn't be allowed to do it any other way"

Cheers,

Ian

Having a gentlemen, who was asked to present this concept at a national cleaning show,  justify what he is doing to certain members of this forum is TOTALLY ABSURD.

It really does demonstrate how bigoted some mebers of this forum really are.



Mark

[matt]

Having a gentlemen, who was asked to present this concept at a national cleaning show,  justify what he is doing to certain members of this forum is TOTALLY ABSURD.

It really does demonstrate how bigoted some mebers of this forum really are.



Mark

here is a idea then, dont bother with the forum, no1 forces you to read the posts

[bluez]

Matt,
I would much rather discuss this issue or others for that matter in a mature fashion allowing others to express an opinion different to mine without having to sift through pointless negative posts that add nothing to either side of the debate.

If you are unable to articulate your objection to franchising without reverting to "dont read it then" type replies you may find that you get your wish, a forum of 1. you.

Now what fun would that be!

[matt]

Matt,
I would much rather discuss this issue or others for that matter in a mature fashion allowing others to express an opinion different to mine without having to sift through pointless negative posts that add nothing to either side of the debate.

If you are unable to articulate your objection to franchising without reverting to "dont read it then" type replies you may find that you get your wish, a forum of 1. you.

Now what fun would that be!

so its  ok for davo to post this

Having a gentlemen, who was asked to present this concept at a national cleaning show,  justify what he is doing to certain members of this forum is TOTALLY ABSURD.

It really does demonstrate how bigoted some mebers of this forum really are.

thus s1agging off "some members" of this forum who do not share his views / opinions, which personally is a touch on the rude side, dont you think

but my reply to him isnt, and to be fair, my reply is polite and not abusive / rude

oh and i dont really have an major objection to franchising, i cannot see it effecting me, i can see the point of it with lets say "subways" , but as WC'ing franchising goes, i fail to see why any1 would want to " buy in ", just as i fail to see why any1 would choose to be employed as a WC'er, afterall be employed and earn 10 quid a hour or build your own round for a little more , BUT i havent voiced this opinion, as im sure Ian Lancaster doesnt want / need  to hear it

though i think the post that Vince made is right

franchising is about vultures looking for mugs. The process only appeals to people who are nieve or gullable enough to think that the sales pitch of the franchise company will give them the success they would not be able to achieve without it.

is about right in the case of WC'ing franchising, afterall we all know a WC'er who makes a nice living out of this game, without having a degree in biz studies, its not that hard to work out is it

a. Build round ( either though a round building company or knocking doors yourself
b. clean windows
c. get paid


not sure whats so hard about that that people need help doing it, BUT i gues some people do need the help, thus Ian arrives to help ( whilst taking his slice, which i have no issue with, afterall its the same as the others who employ )

we have other issues, PL insurance, accountant, biz bank account, but none of them are too taxing for most


im sure people will be along to point out that im " not that clever and have no insight into this world, so i should keep my nose out " but hey ho

[bluez]

I would never tell you to keep your nose out, your opinion is as good as the next persons. But your last post is the first one where you have actually contributed meaningfully to the discussion, and now that you have I accept some of your points and others I don't.

Very valid points relevent to the debate, that assist people in making an informed decision or opinion.

With regard to Davo's post , he is well enough able to make his own response, but It appears to me that all his posts begin with legitimate topics and then descend into defending his point of view / reason for posting from attack from the same people normally with little or no reference to the subject matter.

Nothing personal Matt, I see lots of your posts are informed and helpful on other issues. 

[Davo]

I would never tell you to keep your nose out, your opinion is as good as the next persons. But your last post is the first one where you have actually contributed meaningfully to the discussion, and now that you have I accept some of your points and others I don't.

Very valid points relevent to the debate, that assist people in making an informed decision or opinion.

With regard to Davo's post , he is well enough able to make his own response, but It appears to me that all his posts begin with legitimate topics and then descend into defending his point of view / reason for posting from attack from the same people normally with little or no reference to the subject matter.

Nothing personal Matt, I see lots of your posts are informed and helpful on other issues. 

Matt, bluez makes very valid points on the above. You tend to chip into certain topics with smart comments that dont really add anything (your not on your own) I wonder if its because you are such a long standing member here that it somehow gives you the right to bypass common courtesy.

Mr Sol has now left this forum, my feeling is that he was hounded off by a minority of people whos sole intention seems to be to try and discredit any contributions that he made.

He came accross to me as a sincere, energetic and intelligent man. The bigots should be ashamed of their behavior, which falls nothing short of playground bullying.

On this thread the integrity of a couple of posters has, once again, been brought into question. That must be detrimental to the forum.

As for my opinion, it is my opinion and i am entitled to it the same as are you.



Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

Davo

Talk about bullying, I was told my reply  yesterday wasnt relevent so i bowed out gracefully.

Everyone has the right to reply with there own view point  not just the words you want to here.

As for calling people "bigots" for not agreeing with a certain view point is more childish and playground as anything.

[frames to panes]

Am i one of those "bigots" i hope not. I don't see that Mr Sol was hounded off at all -someone had very strong opinions against franchising not anything against him. I'm sure he will be on here very shortly under another name.

[Davo]

Davo

Talk about bullying, I was told my reply  yesterday wasnt relevent so i bowed out gracefully.

Everyone has the right to reply with there own view point  not just the words you want to here.

As for calling people "bigots" for not agreeing with a certain view point is more childish and playground as anything.

You class that as being bullied dave?

Why didnt you offer more information to support your point of view?

I stand by what i said in my prior post.


Mark

[Londoner]

Davo, you are not even a window cleaner, never have been by your own admission. So what are you doing on this forum?

What is your motivation for spending time and effort in a window cleaning forum? and what is the "marketing" you say you are interested in? Has it got anything to do with Franchising by any chance?

I am not dissing Ian and I feel sorry he got caught up this, he is up front, he posts under his own name and had the guts to stand up and be counted at Windex.

But you Davo, you hide behind a nickname, you are very short on personal details and like I said before you are not a window cleaner.

The thing is you were very quick to pitch in feet first and keep pitching aggresively on this thread so I find myself wondering whats in it for you?

This forum is not going to be hijacked by people to promote their own self interest.    

  

[Davo]

Davo, you are not even a window cleaner, never have been by your own admission. So what are you doing on this forum?

What is your motivation for spending time and effort in a window cleaning forum? and what is the "marketing" you say you are interested in? Has it got anything to do with Franchising by any chance?

I am not dissing Ian and I feel sorry he got caught up this, he is up front, he posts under his own name and had the guts to stand up and be counted at Windex.

But you Davo, you hide behind a nickname, you are very short on personal details and like I said before you are not a window cleaner.

The thing is you were very quick to pitch in feet first and keep pitching aggresively on this thread so I find myself wondering whats in it for you?

This forum is not going to be hijacked by people to promote their own self interest.    

  

Vince , can i ask who has hijacked this forum to promote their own self interest?

You seem extremely concerned about something which doesnt appear to have happened.I understand your concerns and i personally agree with many things that you have said on the matter. However i dont think your concerns were warranted against Mr Lancaster or Mr Sol.

Mr Lancaster is running a franchise setup and Mr Sol wanted to discuss it, dont think theres any conspiracy there.

Your posts very strongly suggested that a member had a hidden agenda regarding this thread.

I dissagree....




Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

No more bullying than what you are implying

[Davo]

No more bullying than what you are implying

Sorry dave i dont understand what you mean.







Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

He came accross to me as a sincere, energetic and intelligent man. The bigots should be ashamed of their behavior, which falls nothing short of playground bullying.

.



Mark

[Davo]

He came accross to me as a sincere, energetic and intelligent man. The bigots should be ashamed of their behavior, which falls nothing short of playground bullying.

.



Mark

Oh i see, my comment doesnt relate to just this one post, there are many posts Mr Sol was involved in where replies became personal.

If someone wants to dissagree, then fine, but be prepared to substantiate what you say rather than the sarcastic, irrelevant drivel.

Liar liar pants on fire doesnt really promote healthy debate.


Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

Sorry Davo, I dont know how i got dragged in to this.

If you look at my posts it is very rare i argue with anyone and dont want to get drawn in.

Enuff said


Byyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[matt]

Matt, bluez makes very valid points on the above. You tend to chip into certain topics with smart comments that dont really add anything (your not on your own) I wonder if its because you are such a long standing member here that it somehow gives you the right to bypass common courtesy.

i chip in to certain topics with "smart remarks" that are often in humour, or in this certain case, you have a go at this forum or some of the members ( some of these i class as " mates ", thus my remark was and still is, if you dont like this place, move on, plenty of other posts to read

Mr Sol has now left this forum, my feeling is that he was hounded off by a minority of people whos sole intention seems to be to try and discredit any contributions that he made.

He came accross to me as a sincere, energetic and intelligent man. The bigots should be ashamed of their behavior, which falls nothing short of playground bullying.




Mark

Mr Sol, give as much as he gets, its easy to view posts and think " oh poor soul, he is being hard done by here, them nasty bullies are out to get him " but i can assure you he gives it out aswell, as a few will seen

personally he has improved alot in the recent times, his posts are showing respect to others and he seems to appreicate that others have different goals to his and they are not wrong

On this thread the integrity of a couple of posters has, once again, been brought into question. That must be detrimental to the forum.

once again, on the attack of others on here, this forum is for window cleaners to help each other, it might be a bit of advice about a pole, or a bit of a " gee-up" when they are feeling down about this life ( it can be a lonely life at times )
personally i find this forum works well, yes we have moments when its good to have a bit of a joke, but isnt that like life in general

[frames to panes]

Good post that, whats wrong with chipping in with a few smart or humorous comments now and again? Loosen up a bit Davo, relax maybe a career change is what you need?