[Village Gleam]

Obviously this topic heading is sparked By Ian Lancaster's windex talk. the text of which window washers has put up for download. Assuming people are interested enought to have read this first before commenting, I would ask.

Assume you wanted to do this, you biult your own work up and were ready in terms of operation and systems.
1. How much would the paper work cost?
2. What ballpark figure should the buy-in and the royalty be set at?

[Village Gleam]

It's common practice to use standard contracts in any sort of legal arrangement. When you buy a house for instance, the contracts you exhcange are a normal standard law society contract. You could write your own and it would be legal, you could get your solicitor to write one and that would still be legal. But it means a lot of aggro for the other side who then have to check it. The standard law society are accepted and probably not even read or checked. However, you ,me , and everyone else has to pay a copyrite fee on using these forms which is quite hefty, but cheaper than having to scrutinise every line for hours.

[windowwashers]

It's common practice to use standard contracts in any sort of legal arrangement. When you buy a house for instance, the contracts you exhcange are a normal standard law society contract. You could write your own and it would be legal, you could get your solicitor to write one and that would still be legal. But it means a lot of aggro for the other side who then have to check it. The standard law society are accepted and probably not even read or checked. However, you ,me , and everyone else has to pay a copyrite fee on using these forms which is quite hefty, but cheaper than having to scrutinise every line for hours.

there are companies out there going over contract as getting clients money back as contracts are illegal, they call me all the time and I am talking the well known compnaies that you and I and most people on here would deal with, this part to me is a very big hurdle.

Ian

[Village Gleam]

Thanks for that Ian that was a good favour, I love things like that. Recently I have read James Dysons (400 mill) book and Gordon Ramsey (50mill), both were superb.

On the contract thing if both parties want it to work and the franchisor is onto a good thing, providing you keep it small scale it should be manageable. Personally I would not want that high a start up fee, but would want a serious candidate of a high calibre.

[windowwashers]

Thanks for that Ian that was a good favour, I love things like that. Recently I have read James Dysons (400 mill) book and Gordon Ramsey (50mill), both were superb.

On the contract thing if both parties want it to work and the franchisor is onto a good thing, providing you keep it small scale it should be manageable. Personally I would not want that high a start up fee, but would want a serious candidate of a high calibre.

if the product is a good one the start up fee is cheap for the benifits it can bring to the as you say high calibre candidate, and having a high start up fee will normally stop the thinkers and attract the do'ers in life.

[Davo]

Obviously this topic heading is sparked By Ian Lancaster's windex talk. the text of which window washers has put up for download. Assuming people are interested enought to have read this first before commenting, I would ask.

Assume you wanted to do this, you biult your own work up and were ready in terms of operation and systems.
1. How much would the paper work cost?
2. What ballpark figure should the buy-in and the royalty be set at?

2) The figure should be high enough so that there is serious comitment to the business, however i see the real value, apart from coporate branding, in providing work for the franchisee. Providing the franchisee with good paying work means that they are able to afford to pay a reasonable royalty figure, and pay back  the money you have leant them to set up as a franshisee.

What the figure should be IMO is a figure which leaves them with £30 an hour cleaning.




Mark

[Davo]

Where are you based Mr Sol?





Mark

[Londoner]

If we start going down the franchising route as a forum then I am going to leave. Its a rip off , first , last and always. I hate franchises, I saw so much grief and pain in my previous life/ job  that I will never support any discussion of franchising.

Thats my view and its not negotiable.

[windowwashers]

If we start going down the franchising route as a forum then I am going to leave. Its a rip off , first , last and always. I hate franchises, I saw so much grief and pain in my previous life/ job  that I will never support any discussion of franchising.

Thats my view and its not negotiable.

thats fair enough it is your view, but many others are interested in it. maybe dont read post that say fanchising as the title 

you have the choice what and what not to read, why leave  :

[Londoner]

No not toys in pram, I worked for Kodak for 24 years, in that time I saw people lose their houses, their life savings and their marriages because of contracts they had signed with franchise companies.

They were, for the most part, not clued up business people but vunerable and gullable people who believed what they were being told and they were exploited and robbed.

I was not, and Kodak was not directly involved but we stood by and saw it all happen, it was not pretty. These companies were set up , in my opinion to rob and steal from the vunerable.
There was no real expectation that the business plan would roll out in a sucessful way because the only people tempted by the scheme in the first place were those who were not gifted with the talents to succeed.

I mean what I say, I will not be part of any forum that supports franchising. Sorry     

[windowwashers]

No not toys in pram, I worked for Kodak for 24 years, in that time I saw people lose their houses, their life savings and their marriages because of contracts they had signed with franchise companies.

They were, for the most part, not clued up business people but vunerable and gullable people who believed what they were being told and they were exploited and robbed.

I was not, and Kodak was not directly involved but we stood by and saw it all happen, it was not pretty. These companies were set up , in my opinion to rob and steal from the vunerable.
There was no real expectation that the business plan would roll out in a sucessful way because the only people tempted by the scheme in the first place were those who were not gifted with the talents to succeed.

I mean what I say, I will not be part of any forum that supports franchising. Sorry     

Vince, not all go out to rob people some work very well and really do change other lifes for the better, you are have you reasons from one compnay that IMO did not have forsite into the digital world, I do feel for these people but casting your ciew on every franchise is wrong IMO do you take your kids to Macdonalds or burger king? my point is there are not all bad, and agin I say you dont have to read it, I am not trying to upset you in anyway as this is clearly a sore point for you, but things change and as I said before many find this interesting.
I never saw in the terms of use on the forum that you cannot talk about this topics and it is an open forum, not everyone will liek the topics but it you can choose not to read it.

Ian

[frames to panes]

I know very little about franchising, very little about anything according to some on here, but surely the name has to have been a well known recognisable brand for some time to make it attractive to a franchisee and customers alike?

[windowwashers]

I know very little about franchising, very little about anything according to some on here, but surely the name has to have been a well known recognisable brand for some time to make it attractive to a franchisee and customers alike?

well known is  good thing, but not alway does this happen or need to start off, a good brand name is always a plus point and will help there is a key to make this happen and Ionics do very well with one of the things they do like it or not.
 

[frames to panes]

Mr Sol, here's one (don't think they have electric reels though)


http://www.staycleanwindows.co.uk/wfp/franchising-3.html

[windowwashers]

Mr Sol, here's one (don't think they have electric reels though)


http://www.staycleanwindows.co.uk/wfp/franchising-3.html

I so what someone cleaning windows in bristol to get an area on my site

[frames to panes]

I have in fact looked into franchising briefly, but for me i couldn't see the point in this industry. You part with say £15000 then you still need to supply the van and then find the work i believe. On top of that there are the royalties.
Reading quickly i think Ian Lancaster has done something similar by providing the work and his name. Good luck to him, well done.
 However the way i see it with say stayclean, the cards are stacked very heavily in their favour as opposed to the franchisee's.

ps. you will gather i looked at it from the viewpoint of a franchisee and not of the view of providing a franchise.

[bluez]

No not toys in pram, I worked for Kodak for 24 years, in that time I saw people lose their houses, their life savings and their marriages because of contracts they had signed with franchise companies.

They were, for the most part, not clued up business people but vunerable and gullable people who believed what they were being told and they were exploited and robbed.

I was not, and Kodak was not directly involved but we stood by and saw it all happen, it was not pretty. These companies were set up , in my opinion to rob and steal from the vunerable.
There was no real expectation that the business plan would roll out in a sucessful way because the only people tempted by the scheme in the first place were those who were not gifted with the talents to succeed.

I mean what I say, I will not be part of any forum that supports franchising. Sorry     

Vince a forum doesn't support anything, it is a discussion board.
Many bad experiences out there and as always in business buyer beware. Franchising has many benifits both to the franchisor and the franchisee but it will only suit the minority.  I am all for the discussion of franchising even though I may not be in favour of it in some cases.

Normally the problems that arise with franchises are either the franchisor over promising or the franchisee expecting to get it easy. A franchise is not a licence not to work, all businesses take work.

[Ian Lancaster]

If we start going down the franchising route as a forum then I am going to leave. Its a rip off , first , last and always. I hate franchises, I saw so much grief and pain in my previous life/ job  that I will never support any discussion of franchising.

Thats my view and its not negotiable.

Hi Vince,

I think I am uniquely situated to comment on your views.  I am one of those who was "ripped off" by a franchisor - I bought a franchise which, although it was workable, it didn't do what the franchisor promised me it would. 

I walked away from a franchise that cost me £15,000

When I started my own franchise, I made sure that I didn't make any promises I couldn't keep.  If you doubt me, then e-mail me and I'll give you contact details for my franchisees, you can ask them yourself if they've been ripped off.  If I tell you that my latest one has been with me full time since February and already he has £3,200 of work, and is scheduled to have £4,000/month by the end of April then I challenge you to show how I've ripped him off.

We're not all tarred with the same brush

[ronnie paton]

Ian i know knothung about franchising so excuse me, do you other them work for there money or just advise and a guide to how you have done what you have done??

Or am i totally wrong

[Village Gleam]

DJW you have worked for a year and biult your own very good business, but you could have been guaranteed £600 per week from day one. (and then rising). The question I am asking is what fee is reasonable for that, and what ongoing royalty should you be paying for that?

Bear in mind that I/the franchisor guarantees to buy the franchise back off you should you wish to exit, or assist with a sale. So basically you get your money back any way, and if you increase the customer base you get more back (under the system we are talking about).

All you would have to do DJW is clean windows, you get advice on bank account and payment methods. You would be using a hot system and an electric reel and have proper marketing with lots of con cleans and advertised offers to draw people in (if it was my franchise) and believe me DJW you would fly. You have no idea.(your pricing is okay by the way).

Next, correct me if I am wrong but this whole premise is based not just on any franchise, but on Jim Perrimans Jims Mowing. The similarities between this industry and window cleaning are startling. The thing is DJW the whole thing is based on a set of values and honesty and integrity. Jim is a christian, a mormon in fact, and he takes these values very seriously. Honesty is not something that you can fake and I'm sure that this is one of many things that Ian has going for him.