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maclock cleaning

  • Posts: 75
help needed
« on: December 15, 2004, 08:17:56 pm »
hi to all

if possible could anyone help? we are in the domestic side and we clean the inside of windows, and we are finding it hard to get rid of smears when the sun is shining can anyone give any tips please?

also when there is condensation?

thank u
Newcastle Upon Tyne..........

pjulk

Re: help needed
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2004, 08:35:40 pm »
How are you cleaning the inside windows at the moment
IE - Applicator, Squeegie , scrim, microfibre, spray, what solution are you using to clean the windows

Paul

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2004, 09:36:43 pm »
hi

i've found that when the sun is shinning on a window it needs to be squided quickly. I also use an extra amount of either the good old fairy liquid or something like unger windows cleaners stuff.

are you using the mop to dry?

when i'm doing insides, i carry a small bottle of diluted unger cleaning solution and add that directly to the mop if it goes a bit dry.

i've also just started using a chamois. before i was using microfibre cloths but i find the chamois better for the odd smear.

also, i've found that if greasy smeers are still there after i squided the window - i've found that that means i need to add more cleaning stuff to the mop.

with bad condensation i use less dilute cleaning solution.

cheers

ross


Rob_j

  • Posts: 49
Re: help needed
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2004, 11:40:42 pm »
I hate to say it but I have found that using Mr Muscle window cleaner is fantastic. Just a fine spray on the glass then a quick wipe with a slightly damp scrim then a final shine with a dry microfibre cloth works wonders. It's a really quick way of cleaning interiors. I do take the label off the bottle though. I love doing interiors now, I used to hate it.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: help needed
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2004, 06:10:16 am »
the cleaning of inside windows can obviously be carried out in a number of ways, but generally you do them exactly the same as you would with outside windows.
One thing you should do is to make sure you have your applicator (if using a squeegee) a lot drier than you would for outside work, (less mopping up and detailing).
With whatever detergent you use, but in particular any brand of washing up liquid, DON'T USE TOO MUCH!
With washing up liquids and ALL other detergents, a film is left behind on the glass, you will not (in most cases) be able to see it or feel it, but it is there nonetheless and with windows where condensation is a big problem it can make getting a decent finish a problem.
Staying with applicator and squeegee and windows that condensate as you are cleaning them; It really does come down to your technique with the squeegee, but it can help if you use your scrim or microfibre, after having gone over the glass with your applicator, to 'edge' the top and sides of the glass before using your squeegee. This also cuts down on detailing afterwards.
If you have smears or 'kicks' from the squeegee then your squeegeeing technique is at fault.
To help cut down on condensation, try to open as much of the actual window you are cleaning, the through draft from the open window greatly reduces condensation.
But even if you cannot eliminate the condensation, once you have squeegee'd the glass clean, don't worry about any condensation that occurs, once you move away from the window, the condensation will quickly disappear, marks will only be there if you have farted around with a scrim trying to dry the glass ::)

If you are using a sprayer and buffing clean with either a scrim or microfibre cloth then condensation can be a real pain, particularly on georgian windows. If condensation a big problem and can't be avoided by opening windows, then I use a squeegee (cut down) even on the smallest of panes, but the technique has to be very differrent, you simply will not do a good job squeegeeing off the glass in the same manner as you would on a large pane.

The only reason I would not use Mr Muscle is the cost! Tesco's own brand is the equal of Mr Muscle and half the price (literally)
Another even cheaper option, and one that can also be used to spray on the inside of windows and squeegee'd off afterwards, is Car Plan windscreen solution. At £2.50 for 5l of concentrate (Sommerfield stores) it is a real bargain as you dilute it down at least 15:1
GG3 and GG4, Unger liquid and no doubt other specialist detergents aimed specifically at us window cleaners can also be used in the same way with sprayers. Every one of them work out way cheaper than Mr Muscle too!

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

maclock cleaning

  • Posts: 75
Re: help needed
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2004, 09:07:41 pm »
thanks all for taking the time to reply very grateful for the tips we will give them all ago. again thanks   :D
Newcastle Upon Tyne..........

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2004, 12:24:49 am »
One thing I've found out recently that may be of interest is that most expensive detergents (fairy liquid etc) contain quite an amount of silicone. Silicone is used to not only give things an 'as new' look and feel, ie cups, plates, etc, but also to make 'ones' hands feel soft - but the real thing aboout silicone is that it smears on shiny sufaces like glass unless it is dried quickly.

It seems that the cheaper the detergent, the less silicone it contains.

This last month I've been using the cheapest of the cheapest detergent and although I've been using a lot more more to give that 'slip' factor, I've found that it is better for cleaning windows than the more expensive brands.

If you doubt what I'm saying, buy a silicone spray from any DIY shop and spray some on glass and then try wiping it clean. It just smears. Fairy Liquid proudly boast that their detergent contains 'even more' silicone for that 'soft hands' feeling. Remeber the advert 'for hands that do dishes can be soft as your face.................'. All thanks to silicone.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

cheers

Ross (brighton)

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2004, 12:28:33 am »
I forgot to add that for some jobs I've been using fairy liquid as I'm used to using it,  and for some others where the customer doesn't really worry so much, I've been using very cheap detergent  just to compare the two.

As it stands now, I starting to think the cheaper the detergent, the better it cleans.

Ross

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: help needed
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2004, 01:48:49 pm »
Ross,
Try using the likes of GG3 or GG4 or Unger liquid, these are not cheap but they go a long way and are designed with us in mind.
They leave very little residue behind too, unlike washing up liquids, which, no matter how good you are with a squeegee, do leave considerably more.

I am now a user of WFP, if I were to come along after you had just finished squeegeeing a window off and went over it with WFP, even though you will have done a top job with not a smear or a mark in sight, the glass will still froth up slightly on contact with the pure water.
The stronger your water/detergent solution the more it will suds up.
It is this invisible film that dust particles in the air will adhere to.

If you can get the hang of using the specialist liquids this won't happen to the same degree (doesn't eliminate though! I have tested it out!)

Have to say I didn't realise there was silicone in washing up liquid ???

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2004, 07:22:42 pm »
Hi Ian

That's interesting what you wrote regards WFP and the glass frothing a bit.  I think getting a WFP sytem is a must for us at some point next year.

I have bought some unger stuff. I bought a liquid (I forget what is was called) but it stunk the van out so I dumped it. I also bought the gel and although I've only been using it yesterday and today, it does knock spots off washing up liquid.

Also, Fairy Liquid, apart from containing the toxin - Silcone, contains artifical musks (for that clean, fresh lemon smell etc) which are highly toxic and are absorbed through the skin. Seriously. Procter and Gamble who make it don't give a damn and won't even list what else is in this seemingly harmless detergent.

Maclock

Hi again. Just a thought, have you tried Nilsglass? It a spray on glass cleaner. I was using it today inside a house where a mop couldn't be used and it's really good stuff.

Cheers

Ross


gaza

  • Posts: 1642
Re: help needed
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2004, 08:49:57 pm »
IAN THE WFP GUY, I use a pole as well but suffered badly with previous use of fairy liquid as the pure water was drawing it out still after two cleans,my brain was beginning to hurt as I had complaint after complaint about spotty windows,dont know if you got the same results but this sounds a standard practice when you change over to the wfp system, so my cure was to mop and squeezy it a few times with pure water,not very good slip,but after 2 cleans I regained my money lost by being able to wfp it with out a complaint,and regained my belief that I .was doing the right thing in changing system
IM AT THAT AGE MY BACK GOES OUT MORE THAN I DO

mickeyfat

Re: help needed
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2004, 01:02:45 pm »
 8)

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2004, 10:36:29 pm »
Silly question maybe.

But can you do ground floor windows with WFP's?

I am newish to all of this.

Cheers

Ross

karlosdaze

Re: help needed
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2004, 07:33:17 pm »
One thing I've found out recently that may be of interest is that most expensive detergents (fairy liquid etc) contain quite an amount of silicone. Silicone is used to not only give things an 'as new' look and feel, ie cups, plates, etc, but also to make 'ones' hands feel soft - but the real thing aboout silicone is that it smears on shiny sufaces like glass unless it is dried quickly.

It seems that the cheaper the detergent, the less silicone it contains.

This last month I've been using the cheapest of the cheapest detergent and although I've been using a lot more more to give that 'slip' factor, I've found that it is better for cleaning windows than the more expensive brands.

If you doubt what I'm saying, buy a silicone spray from any DIY shop and spray some on glass and then try wiping it clean. It just smears. Fairy Liquid proudly boast that their detergent contains 'even more' silicone for that 'soft hands' feeling. Remeber the advert 'for hands that do dishes can be soft as your face.................'. All thanks to silicone.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

cheers

Ross (brighton)
Hi Ross,
The silicon used in fairy liquid is not the same as what you find in silicon sprays and tubes. Soluble silicates (orthosilicic acid)& their devrivatives are some of the most widely used chemicals in the detergent industry/catalyst support additives/ & polymers & beer stabilisers and even absorbents in edible oils. Not really a silicon but a monomer far removed from what we know as silicon. The fact that fairy is 50% water & only 5% polymer shows it is just another surfactant that attaches itself with dirt before wiping off - for want of better explanation. The reason why ethanol/other alcohols is included in the mix is just a quicker way of stopping the smears, until you make a closer inspection.
The reason why you find the cheaper stuff is better is because it contains less chemicals, so adding more of it defeats the object.
If they have started added Glycerine big time, then I would be wary & stick to the original mix.
You can download a fairy ingredient sheet almost anywhere on the internet in pdf form-not one mention of silicon.
Also because it is used as a solution that goes down the sink, you will find it is not quite so toxic as you made out ealier in this thread, there are important laws governing what goes through our drains!
As to window cleaning, use less, you will only need a couple of drops per gallon. Me - I prefer GG4, cheaper by a long run when used with its sample bottle. If you go through more than 1 x 4 litre bottle a year (1 man working), you are using too much in your mix.

rosskesava

Re: help needed
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2005, 01:16:29 am »
Hi Karlosdaze

I know this reply is a bit late so to speak. Thanks for the info - very interesting and I looked into what you wrote.. I was not 'fairy bashing'. Proctor and Gamble refuse to list what's in fairy liquid. That is a fact. They refered me to the 'Retail Association' who in turn quoted me mumbo jumbo from some directive or another sub paragraph something clause whatever that was modern day gooble de gook. Silicon is silicon whether soluable or not. Poison is poison whether within something edible or not. It's ingestion that is the problem. Sometimes ingestion takes place over years. It can be through the skin. The oils on our skin protect us and detergents destroys it so ingestion takes place when the protective layer of the skin is removed. That is also a fact.  That does not reduce the toxicity of a toxin like silicon. It also makes identifying it's toxicity very difficult because of other influences within an organism especially as so many things in modern day society are toxic but considered at safe levels if you take that one thing on it's own. Some polymers give off a toxic gas. That is well documented. A lot of chemicals we use every day are fine on there own, but mix them with other chemicals we use everyday and how can anyone calculate the miriad reactions that must take place daily and it's effects? Also, what about the musks? They end up in the food chain. To be, one way or another, eaten by us at a later date.

I am not so interested in being a fanantic but I do realise that companies like Proctor and Gamble hide behind technical info and a big business always doing what's in the interest of profits. How many examples of that is needed.

As for the laws that govern what goes down the drain - look at the pollution in the seas and the polluting of the water table. So much for such laws. Where did that pollution come from? All from chemicals that are 'safe'. Those laws are decided by politicians who pander to what big business will accept unless it becomes unacceptable to those who vote for such politicians and then the law changes.

Anyway, I now use GG4 to which cleans windows better than good old fairy. My business partner swears by cheap detergent. And yes, I find GG4 cheaper.

Cheers

Ross

texas girl

  • Posts: 348
Re: help needed
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2005, 06:10:49 am »
I clean the insides of windows the same way as the outside, except I use less moisture on the scrubber. I use a squeegee to take off the liquid.  Being from the states, I am curious what is fairy solution?  I use a dish detergent and alcohol diluted heavily of course. The acohol serves as a wetting agent and has that fresh smell, while the detergent removes the dirt really well.  For tough inside jobs I have found that making the solution a little stronger helps.

I would advise always use a scrubber or sponge to clean with, and a squeegee to remove the solution. Using a cloth and a spray will move the dirt around.  Less time and work by using the other method. Same is true for mirrors. As far as condensation goes, what looks like condensation may actually be moisture that seeps in between the panes of glass. Over here we have a lot of windows that consist of two panes pressed together and sealed around the edges.  In time the seal breaks, thus causing condensation to form in between the panes of pressed glass. It appears to be in the glass but is between the panes. It is especially common on windows where the sun shines on them a lot. I see it all the time. Some times new homes with poor quality windows. The older windows seem to hold up better. Only solution to fix this problem is to replace the window.
Debbie

simonb

Re: help needed
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2005, 08:51:51 am »
Its dishwashing liquid.

wash & go window cleaners

  • Posts: 42
Re: help needed
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2005, 06:31:02 pm »
Hi
 We do loads of inside cleans and use mirror & glass cleaner by Jangro. Its around 7 quid for 5ltrs. we spray it on /wipe with damp scrim/buff with dry scrim. its ded good for pubs etc.. gets rid of fAg smoke and also cleans  upvc frames quite well. By the way does anyone know of a really really good upvc frame cleaner? And where it can be obtained?

Duke

Re: help needed
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2005, 06:37:28 pm »
try 'Liqiud Sander.......small dollop on a clean lint free cloth and wipe.....available at most DIY places (B&Q)..........(or other various names and stores) Sugar Soap in dilution is good too.......have a play...

wash & go window cleaners

  • Posts: 42
Re: help needed
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2005, 06:56:16 pm »
Thanx duke I've got a few frame cleaning jobs next week. I'll give it a try :)