[L.J.Thorpe]

Thanks thorpe!

yer it hadnt been used when this pick was taken but it still looks the same!

how many things could it be? loads and loads or one or two? because i could look into it abit more. what i mean is .. is it just something silly like prefilters not a major problem

hmm i spose you wont no. i dont no what to do haha.. thanks anyway

Dave123
I wouldn't think being so new it could be much but i would contact your supplier & get to the bottom of it, like, tomorrow morning? otherwise you could end up going round in circles all week.

Tony

gotta go with that mate,probably something really minor,takes a while for any real problems to start,give em a ring

[dave0123]

Thanks!

i will do give them a ring 2morra mite as well if we get all thse winds and jus say its producings not much water lol.


thanks

[macmac]

Tony

once resin tds starts to rise there isnt much you can do to stem the flow , maybe get an extra 1000 ltr or 2, but when its gone its gone.

I have tried all sorts of ways to get the resin to last longer as i have been di for nearly 3 years.

What i do is have one vessil on go until the tds rises above zero then i put fresh di vessil after the one which is rising.

So i have tapwater tds of about 80 going into vessil which is 5 approx and rising into fresh resin which comes out zero, when the first vessil gets to 80 ish i change it for fresh and put it after the last one i changed , if i have 2 vessils rising in tds together i put a third vessil in line.

Tried all sorts, nothing seams to help, i dont get stressed with it, if i start trying i am just wasting my time and time is more valuable than trying to get a few extra litres out of a bag of resin.

Dave

But what i'm saying dave is that if you turn your flow from the tap down that is feeding the DI's this should give you much more litres of water before the tds starts to rise. If you changed to dowex resin & turned your flow down to at least half of what it is now & this resulted in you halfing your resin costs would it be worth it to you?

Also do you shake the first vessel when it gets to 80ppm?

Tony

[Moderator David@stives]

Tony

I have shaken them and it does absolutely nothing at all.

Honestly what you are saying wouldnt even give you an extra 5 % out of the resin , no way twice as much.

I have tried everything.

Dave

[L.J.Thorpe]

get an ro ,the tds on your tapwater makes mine look like chernobyl run off   in at 500 out at nine,three sets of prefilters and 25kg of resin for a year ,thats about one tenth of what you are spending on resin,surely the ro will save you money....suppose it depends how much water you use tho

[[GQC] Tim]

Indeed Dave, with your production rate of water, I'd really go RO. Thousand pound on Resin already in this year would be enough to go RO in my opinion. And I'm assuming with your turnover, 2x 4040 RO's wouldn't be too much of an issue would it?

How can you justify spending thousands a year on Resin, while an RO is so much economical?

Thinking about it again, apart from fast filling and the initial startup cost. I'd still be RO + DI even if I lived in a very soft water area.

[alanwilson]

yeah I'd def recommend a 4040.  No need for a twin 4040, just go for a good 4040 setup (gapswater) and booster pump.

You can run the ro at a very low waste ratio if it is pumped and esp as your tap tds is low.

Will save you a fortune. 

[[GQC] Tim]

yeah I'd def recommend a 4040.  No need for a twin 4040, just go for a good 4040 setup (gapswater) and booster pump.

You can run the ro at a very low waste ratio if it is pumped and esp as your tap tds is low.

Will save you a fortune. 

Yea but he's running a couple of vans and using 1000l + a day per van or so?

[macmac]

Tony

I have shaken them and it does absolutely nothing at all.

Honestly what you are saying wouldnt even give you an extra 5 % out of the resin , no way twice as much.

I have tried everything.

Dave

Well, after 4 years with DI only I have more then halfed my resin consumption & am now even using more water than i was back then! from 5/6 bags per year down to 2.
This has been with adding a second DI vessel, switching to dowex resin & backflushing/shaking the vessels.
You still seem to be missing the main point, you haven't mentioned if you've ever tried filling your statics with a lesser flow rate? The lesser flow rate is the main attribution to your resin efficiency IMO? There's no way any normal wfp resin is going to last blasting 600ltrs per hour through it!

Tony

[windowwashers]

I have used over a thousand pounds of resin this year.

Time to get an RO me thinks

£1000 of resin in three month geezzz, you defo need a 4040

[alanwilson]

pumped single 4040 will make about 300ltrs per hr = 7200lpd

although that means running the pump all the time.  Not cheap on elec or pumps either!

[windowwashers]

pumped single 4040 will make about 300ltrs per hr = 7200lpd

although that means running the pump all the time.  Not cheap on elec or pumps either!

I get about 140L per hour with no pump, have had to buy new fittings for hose as it keeps blowing off  :
I am liking the sound of 300L per hour though, wheres the best place to get a pump ?

Ian

[macmac]

 
 

MB-400

Ready-to-use mixed bed


Technical Data


Product Description

MB-400

is a fully-regenerated mixture of strong acid cation resin (C100H) in the H form with a type 1 strong-base anion resin (A400OH) in the OH form. It is ready for use after a short rinse to drain and can achieve very high quality demineralised water.

Applications:

This resin is primarily used in two roles for the production of high quality demineralised water. While it is suitable for use in regenerable or non-regenerable cartridges and in large ion exchange units, it is primarily used in the non-regenerated throw-away mixed bed market.

It can be used either in small applications to directly treat incoming raw waters to produce a good-quality demineralised water or in a polishing application after other ion exchange and / or reverse osmosis plant to produce water of even higher quality. Polishing of good-quality water under recommended operating conditions can see the resin as supplied achieve almost complete reduction of total dissolved solids. The residuals produce average conductivity values of about 0.1 s cm-1 for a major portion of the service run, which may be extended depending upon the final water quality acceptable.

Regeneration:

The product is supplied to a high-quality level including the grading of the resin which allows the resins to be separated on backwashing and means that this resin can be returned to a central regeneration station for regeneration and re-mixing before re-use in a similar or the same application.

High volumes of ultra pure water may be obtained after regeneration but only if sufficient regenerant quantities are employed to achieve the percentage conversion levels equivalent to those of the "as supplied" resin. Generally acceptable capacity and quality is obtained economically at lower regeneration levels.

It is usually impossible to obtain the same level of performance from any ready-to-use mixed bed resin after regeneration compared to when first manufactured and used in an application.
The mix of cation and anion components is not equal. It has been designed to give equal cation and anion performance over a wide range of naturally occurring raw waters.

 



Typical Chemical and Physical Characteristics
Polymer Structure Gel polystyrene cross-linked with divinylbenzene
Appearance Spherical beads
Functional Groups Sulphonic acid and quaternary ammonium
Ionic Form - as shipped Hydrogen - H+, Hydroxide - OH-
Shipping Weight 705-740 kg/m3 (44-46 lb/ft3)
Screen Size Range (U.S. Standard Screen) 16-50 mesh wet
Particle Size Range (microns) +1200 < 5%, -300 < 1%
Moisture Retention - as shipped 65% max
Total Exchange Capacity
Cation component (Na+ form) 1.9 eq/l min
Anion component (Cl- form) 1.3 eq/l min
Percentage by volume
Cation component 40
Anion component 60
Temperature Limit
Non-regenerative bed 100° C (212° F)
Regenerative bed 60° C (140° F)
pH Limits None
Notes
This resin mixture is manufactured with a very high percentage conversion to the hydrogen and hydroxide forms. Exposure to the atmosphere for more than half an hour can result in uptake of substantial quantities of carbon dioxide which can affect the performance of this product. Hence, bags should be opened shortly before use and unused bags re-sealed carefully. This product should not be left in direct sunlight.


Pure deionised water of the quality obtainable from MB-400 has uses in many applications and industries. A few of these are included in the following list: in chemical and photographic laboratories, for water conditioning for steam irons, for topping up car batteries, for stain prevention in glazing industry, in the cleaning of glassware in catering and licensed trade, as well as the EDM market

Water may be passed either intermittently or continuously at flow rates up to 40 bed volumes per hour, depending upon the total dissolved solids of the water to be treated. Where use is intermittent, the provision of a recycle system will ensure that the treated water quality is the best possible. Alternatively, after a period of shutdown, the first water obtained when starting up can be discarded until the quality is satisfactory.

Many alternative ready-to-use resin mixtures are available from the Purolite range. They include other mixed beds including self-indicating resins, mixtures especially designed for operation at higher-than-average flow rates, and mixtures offering high capacity where purity is not critical, or where the feed water quality makes an alternative more suitable. For further details please contact Derwent Water Systems
 




   

[windowwashers]

is all resin regenerated that we use ?

I use dowex myself and found it good.

does anyone know where they can get resin that cleans parts per billion ?

[[GQC] Tim]

is all resin regenerated that we use ?

I use dowex myself and found it good.

does anyone know where they can get resin that cleans parts per billion ?

Dowex is virgin resin IIRC.

[macmac]

Not all resins are regenerated, the above quote is for purolite mb400 taken from derwent-water-systems & before foxman says "who are they"- they are global suppliers & manufactureres of water treatment plant & do not sell window cleaning tools from a lock-up
There are also loads of different resins for many different applications.

Tony

[macmac]

Not all resins are regenerated, the above quote is for purolite mb400 taken from derwenfoolersystems & before foxman says "who are they"- they are global suppliers & manufactureres of water treatment plant & do not sell window cleaning tools from a lock-up
There are also loads of different resins for many different applications.

Tony

That should read- d e r w e n t w a t e r s y s t e m s don't know why that was auto-edited. :

Tony

[Paul Coleman]

Probably because of the last letter of derwent and the first 3 of water   

[Moderator David@stives]

I need to clear a few things up.

When i said £1000 in a year  , I meant in the last 12 months, my tax year ends April 5th.

I dont have static tanks, I DI straight into the van.

Why have I not gone RO sooner.

1, DI is so simple no complications
2 no days lost through lack of water production
3 I didnt know how much i was going to use through 12 months
4 To set up RO, I would need a better tap connection than i currently have, 30 metre hose to a booster pump, pre filters, quality RO membrane, holding tanks (which i dont have at the moment) , quality transfer pump and hose.
5, needed space for holding tanks.
6, need to set electricity supply to my garage 30 mtres from my house

I have got 4 1000 litre IBC's on order, this is the first step towards improving my water production, this alone is costing me £250 plus time to take delivery.

When they arrive i have to spend Time working out how to connect the 4 together as well as finding space.

Why 4 ? Well i want to fill my tanks in one go instead of worrying every night will i have enough water for the morning.

I didnt take the decision lightly to use DI up until present, now because of the amount of water i am producing i think the time is NOW right to start to think about reducing costs.

If my weekends start being taken up sorting RO problems well it will be the wrong decision.

I have put time and ease of use before cost, as time is more valuable to me than trying to save £10 a week.

Dave

[DASERVICES]

Tony how many litres do you get from a bag with what tds reading.

This is the spec for Dowex MB 50 which has surprised me :-

Product Information
Page 1 of 2 * Trademark of The Dow Chemical Company Form No. 177-01633-1003
DOWEX Ion Exchange Resins
DOWEX MB-50
A Ready-for-use Regenerable Mixed Bed Resin for Production of High Quality Water in Lab
and Industrial Applications
Product Resin ratio Matrix Functional group
DOWEX* MB-50 1.2:1 by equivalent, cation:anion Styrene-DVB gel Sulfonic acid, quaternary amine
Guaranteed Sales Specifications OH- form H+ form
Total exchange capacity, min. eq/l
kgr/ft3 as CaCO3
1.2
26.2
1.8
39.3
Water content % 60 max. 50-56
Bead size distribution†:
0.3-1.2 mm, min.
Conversion (OH), min.
Cl, max.
%%%
90
90
1
90


Typical Physical and Chemical Properties OH- form H+ form
Particle density g/ml 1.08 1.22
Shipping weight g/l
lbs/ft3
720
45
720
45
Recommended
Operating
Conditions
• Maximum operating temperature
• pH range
• Bed depth, min.
• Flow rates:
Service/fast rinse
Backwash
Regeneration/displacement rinse
• Total rinse requirement
• Regenerant
• Operating capacity, typical
• Treated water quality, typical
Conductivity
Silica
60°C (140°F)
0-14
800 mm (2.6 ft)
5-50 m/h (2-20 gpm/ft2)
10-15 m/h (4-6 gpm/ft2)
2-10 m/h (0.8-4 gpm/ft2)
3-6 Bed volumes
1-8% H2SO4 or 4-8% HCl and 4-8% NaOH
0.5 eq/l (11 kgr/ft3 as CaCO3)
< 0.2 μS/cm
20-30 ppb
† For additional particle size information, please refer to the Particle Size Distribution Cross Reference Chart (Form No. 177-01775).
Page 2 of 2 *Trademark of The Dow Chemical Company Form No. 177-01633-1003
Typical Properties
and Applications
DOWEX MB-50 resin is a ready-to-use regenerable mixture of DOWEX HCR-S (H) cation
exchange resin and DOWEX SBR LC NG (OH) anion exchange resin.
DOWEX MB-50 resin is used for production of high quality water for laboratory and industrial
use.
Packaging 25 liter bags

http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiterature/dh_0034/0901b80380034d39.pdf?filepath=liquidseps/pdfs/noreg/177-01633.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc