[Billy Russell]

Hello all!! i don't do leather myself but i have got a leather sofa at home which i've always maintained with porchem products which to be fair as always worked well!!! but now my lovely 2yr old daughter has decided she didn't like the colour so she decided she would like it purple!!!!!!!!!!! i've tried my utmost to remove it but it's still there! has anyone out there got any ideas?? i've tried dfs because we took out extra insurance! they've said it doesn't cover pen marks!!!!!!!!!!!

All the best


Will

[lands]

try hairspray

[LTT Leathercare]

You have not said whether this is biro or felt pen.
The following is our standard answer to ink removal problems for consumers or cleaners with no leather experience. Permanent markers are usually that and have redyed the leather so this will need recolouring as there is generally othing that will remove the dye without damaging the finish.

Removal will depend on what type of leather you have.

If the ink is on a pigmented leather then the first thing you should try is an ink stick.http://www.lttsolutions.net/product.asp?product=6 The fresher the ink the more chance you have of removing it. Be sure to check the type of leather you have before doing this as if you use this on an aniline style it will not work and may leave a greasy mark which will not go away.

If an ink stick doesn't work a solvent based remover will need to be used and it may also remove finish and pigment so is best left to a technician.

Using hairspray/WD40 and all these other solvent cleaners is very risky as it can make the matter far worse as it can spread the ink over a bigger area and can sometimes then be impossible to fix.
Using alcohol, perfume, etc. can also be a little risky depending on how stable the finish is. If the finish is unstable this would remove pigment from the leather.
Nail varnish remover or any other solvents will also remove the finish and pigment which will need replacing.

DO NOT USE Baby wipes as they are about the worst thing you can use on a leather as they break down the finish and will eventually ruin it.

Please do not try milk or toothpaste these are silly ideas that will leave sticky residues on the surface which will help to break down the finish on your leather.
Magic erasers usually remove finish and pigment along with the ink. We have just tested these and they really do a lot of damage on leather. They act like a fine sandpaper and remove the finish.

Old ink will be harder to remove than new ink and may mean resorting to solvents which will also remove the finish. This is probably best left to a technician.

Silicones/furniture polish are the worst thing to use on leather as they will form a coating on the surface of the leather which will not allow any moisture to get to the leather and will eventually break all the finish down and make it crack.

Leather does not need conditioning it needs cleaning and protecting on a regular basis with water based products this will keep it rehydrated and supple. Oils will make things much worse.

Leather should be cleaned gently not scrubbed so 'elbow grease' will only do damage to the finish.

Hide food will not remove ink and will leave residues on the leather which will attract dirt and oils.

Using a good quality leather protector (one that works) will help make this problem easier should it happen again, it also does your leather good by protecting it against oils and dirt which ultimately make the pigment crack and the leather deteriorate.


If the ink is on an aniline leather then there is nothing that will work if leather cleaner has not. Basically you have redyed the leather and you would need a specialist to resolve the problem. Using a cleaner and protector on a regular basis will help to dissipate the ink and eventually it will not be so obvious.

If you need any help then just give me a ring on 01423 881027 and we will gladly talk you through

[Ben Staerck]

You can use this - http://www.furnitureclinic.co.uk/LeatherInkRemover.htm

If it doesn't work, nothing will, and instead of removing the stain, you need to cover over it with a colour matched paint.

Hairpsray can work, be careful when using it though not to remove the colour

[Steve Chapman]

Leather does not need conditioning it needs cleaning and protecting on a regular basis with water based products this will keep it rehydrated and supple. Oils will make things much worse.

if this is the case then why does prochem sell a leather conditioner?

regards
steve

[stevegunn]

Before people heard of ltt or furniture clinic we used prochem cleaner or chemspecs cleaner with many happy customers.

For many years these were the products used by many carpet cleaners and chemspec/prochem will have spent a fair bit money developing these products so why change? My local chemspec dealer still uses their own make cleaner and he gets repeat business.

[LTT Leathercare]

Ask Prochem why they condition leather and how it works. 

[stevegunn]

Ask Prochem why they condition leather and how it works. 

You obviously already know the answer care to enlighten us?

[carpet guy]

The only product supplied by our local leather maker,  Bridge of Weir, who have a very impessive client list including the seats in the House of Parliament / British Airways / Volvo / Saab / etc. etc, is a Conditioner.
When I started cleaning leather many years ago I went along to the Leatherworks for advice, which I was given and  part of that advice, was to treat the leather with their conditioner, which is mainly Neets Foot Oil.
Please don't tell me the Bridge of Weir leather company and Muirheads their associated company,don't know what the're talking about. They have been a producer of Premium leathers for over a century and have their own R & D department.

rob

[LTT Leathercare]

Bridge of Weir sell a Protector which is a LM product which is a good protector.  They do not sell a conditioner.  They may call it a 'conditioner' if they feel that is what people want to hear.

In our experience and having spoken to many suppliers of leather the producers do not necessarily know a lot about after care.  Several suppliers defer to us for information on that because they are in the business of leather production or supply and do not get involved with its after care.

For a long time Muirheads were saying you did not have to do anything to leather to look after it, and their website now says:

'Don't feed - modern leathers do not require 'feeding'. Despite this, there is much encouragement to use so-called hide foods, care kits, saddle soaps and waxes - avoid them all!'

This is good information given to try to avoid the many many kits on the market which will actually do harm to the leather ie. 'conditioners' that contain oils and/or waxes.

The LM products work on the principle of a water based cleaner (actually a detergent - which they say should be avoided!!!!) and a protector.  So even from them the information is slightly confusing.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Regards

[*paul_moss]

I do alot of work for a bespoke local upholsterer who uses all Andrew Muirheads hides for his suites, and it is very well finished leather.
With cleaners and protectors, we all need to remember this, unless it is a naked or on some occasions a semi naked leather we are only cleaning the finish on the leather . With pigmented suites that is all we are cleaning and protecting.
 When we had our valet centre,we  used to do car paint glazes for top end customers, they thought it was the  car paint we where glazing when in fact car paint has a laquior over the paint and it is the laquior ( finish) you glaze over.
Similar in terms of finishes which protect a paint or a pigment ( application which lays on the surface).

[Steve Chapman]

we use the prochem conditioner often (also contains neatsfoot oil & is especially

for pigmented leather), and im convinced the leather is softer and more supple

after the application and the customer often remarks on it also,  is this really

happening or is it really then a waste of time, as i said it seems to work to me?

regards
steve

[LTT Leathercare]

There will always be a 'feel'  element to it, usually caused by the oils left on the surface.  This is usually just an instant thing.  The residue that is left on the surface (that cannot be absorbed by the leather due to the finish) is what causes the problem by attracting more dirt and oils.  The suppleness of the leather is becasue you have introduced moisture and loosened up the fibres.

[*paul_moss]

Steve it works for every one. If you clean any surface it will feel smoother/better, add to that a cream/conditioner/protector it will then feel smoother again. The customers perception also usually  because of the nice smell and clean shiney look of the suite will think it feels alot softer. You have also given it a nice massage with warm water to boot.
As Judy says though it is only short lived as the application will melt away with time and wear quite quickly.

The suppleness of the leather is becasue you have introduced moisture and loosened up the fibres.
If it pigmented leather and the top coat is good, then no moisture or creams of any kind will penetrate the finish and get into the leather base at all.

Steve it is not the leather that your dealing with it is the finish that has been placed above the leather you are cleaning and protecting.

[carpet guy]

The BOW product, which I don't believe is available anymore, was branded as Lea Food and was the only product they had when I went down to the Leatherworks many years ago.

As there is no truly solid object on our planet it stands to reason that any liquid will permeate the protective coating and be absorbed by the hide below, some liquids being less dense than others, will permeate the surface more quickly than others.

I really don't think the product I'm referring to, is a protector.

However I have been wrong on many occasions in my life and just recording my limited experience over a short time

rob

[*paul_moss]

As there is no truly solid object on our planet it stands to reason that any liquid will permeate the protective coating and be absorbed by the hide below, some liquids being less dense than others, will permeate the surface more quickly than others.

Rob try this test as I have done to test penetration.

Take an A4 sheet of paper and spray a pigment over it, pref solvent based so the paper does not get over wet, You can use water based if you mist numerious spray patterns using an 0.25 jet.
Once the paper is fully coated in the pigment as a leather repair would be and left to dry,then spray over your top coat,again 2 to 3 applications as you would on leather,then leave to fully cure.

To test penetration rub an oil/conditioner/protection cream onto the finsh and leave it for 20 minutes.
Then look at the under side of the paper to see if it has come through .

Let me know what you find.

[Mark Lane-Matthews]

When applying hairspray use a cotton bud

                                         Mark

[carpet guy]

Paul

I was being slightly sarcastic, but technically correct, as  anyone who's studied matter will tell you about the different rates of vibration that exist in all materials and what happens when anything , no matter how dense it appears is put under high powered magnification.

The test you mention is well known to me and is similar to the Promite, Scotchgard, etc, tests.

Hope the big day goes well and sorry I won't be there

rob