Here's A Poll You Can All Join In

« **on:** February 19, 2008, 11:51:44 pm »

This would really help educate many who are trying to keep to a trade standard.

Please give an honest vote.

No need to say what you hope to get per hour, just say what you honestly get as an average.

No need to put where you are from.

Keep it anonymous if you want.

If you feel the need to comment do.

I'm sure if we do it properly it would give us a more accurate figure.

« **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2008, 11:57:07 pm »

this is why we are having an explosion of window cleaners maybe p.j

its a good poll....

but i dont think it helps, i personally think in the long run it will hinder..

i normally agree with all you experienced guys, but p.j. this time i think this should be locked.

you know it makes sense.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2008, 11:58:27 pm »

its not thursday yet is it ? ? ?

« **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:03:00 am »

lol.

i dont see the point in showing earnings... its demoralising for people who think they can earn a decent living out of window cleaning, when we all know its nearly impossible......

come on guys play the game right.

« **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:05:18 am »

Quote from: matt on February 19, 2008, 11:58:27 pm

its not thursday yet is it ? ? ?

may as well be matt, with this weather.

« **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:06:19 am »

are you all mad ?

« **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2008, 12:42:16 am »

£15! hourly rate! by the time you have paid your over heads, you might as well get a job at Tesco!

Andy

« **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:00:29 am »

oh well forget i spoke. :

« **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2008, 06:36:40 am »

I don't think this will give an accurate perception of an hourly rate, there is a world of difference between the 'rate per minute worked' and how much you can earn in a day, and that too is different to the amount you can earn in a week, which will also be different to what you can earn in a month, AND THAT TOO will be at variance to what you will have earned over a 12 month!!

I have some work where I am earning money at £3.00 per minute worked, but at no time am I earning £180 an hour and certainly not £1,440 per day!!!

My best ever day for instance was about £550, but that was many, many months ago, I've also cleared over a grand in a week, but none of those things are an indicator of my real earnings.

Lets assume we are all really honest and declare every penny we turn over to the tax man.
Now take a look at your annual turnover, divide it by 52, then divide that that by the days per week you work, and that will give you your daily rate.
Don't try dividing that by the hours per day you work, because that varies too much, and don't try allowing for holidays and so on either, because lost days and holidays are irrelevant.

And even then...you have only worked out your business turnover, which is an entirely different thing to your personal income!

Some questions are really not that easy to answer...

Ian

« **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2008, 07:20:43 am »

Some jobs are better than others. My best is a job that I get £100 for 1 & a quarter hours work. How you may ask? Well it used to take 2 of us nearly 4 hours (total) to do as every window had to be done by hand. Now I get asked when I am going to put prices up!

I think what I am trying to say is that I price my work as though it were being cleaned traditionally. I feel that is the only way to earn a decent wage from it. I have however noticed a lot of new people to the industry who price by the time it would take by pole and this is and will have a negative result on the prices that are achievable as these guys never used ladders. All my pre wfp work is now really well priced work and additional stuff in the same areas is exactly the same.

Just yesterday I cleaned 2 new houses in the same close. One at £17 and one at £14. A neighbour who had been watching came across and asked how much I charged. I looked at his house and it was roughly the same so i told him £14. He said he had a w/c before who had come and did his windows wfp but has never returned. He then explained that his charge was £6!! (no joke) I then retorted. "That's why he has not returned". He laughed and agreed to my price without any further hesitation.

I think this is an example of both ends of the scale.

Cheaper prices are even more noticeable with some commercial. I have been staggered at some of the prices I have found being charged.

« **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2008, 08:22:53 am »

Is this the only trade where earnings are so important to everyone? It's a business so charge what you like and earn what you like. If your charging too much you will have no business in the end. Do these posts pop up on the carpet cleaning forums? Why do people feel the need to post their figures on here? I really don't understand it.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2008, 08:48:36 am »

There's no need to lock this, and if you don't like it don't read it.
Other trades do this kind of thing. For example I clean for a huge car dealer and he and his sales men are always asking other dealers how much for a particular model, or scouring the Auto trader to compare.

I meant the ball park figure that you have in mind when you go to price a job.

It is interesting to analyze just from the votes and comments so far. 26 votes and not much consistency. I think it proves a few things already. Charges vary according to region, type of work etc. You may have bigger overheads or small overheads which will effect pricing too.

In fact the only consistent thing so far is that most of you are complaining. I expected that.

« **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2008, 09:22:05 am »

£50 or more Guildford area.

I wouldn't do it for less.

« **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2008, 02:03:31 pm »

Quote from: Pj on February 20, 2008, 08:48:36 am

There's no need to lock this, and if you don't like it don't read it.
Other trades do this kind of thing. For example I clean for a huge car dealer and he and his sales men are always asking other dealers how much for a particular model, or scouring the Auto trader to compare.

I meant the ball park figure that you have in mind when you go to price a job.

It is interesting to analyze just from the votes and comments so far. 26 votes and not much consistency. I think it proves a few things already. Charges vary according to region, type of work etc. You may have bigger overheads or small overheads which will effect pricing too.

In fact the only consistent thing so far is that most of you are complaining. I expected that.

I agree, no need to lock the thread, and it could lead to some interesting discussion.
I personally follow the lead of Roy Harding, with one conversation we had he said his aim was to earn money at a £1.00 per minute.

I liked that way of looking at it, so I tend to price at that level.

Ergo, my minimum price is a tenner, this will cover up to a small 3 bed semi - 10 windows, 10 minutes work - but this does not give you £60 per hour over an 8 hour day because of all the variables that have to be factored in.

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, newbies coming straight into window cleaning via the WFP route tend to price up work by the time it takes them to pole a job, and most tend to think that what they can earn in an hour equates to their overall income...it doesn't!
They come out of a factory earning say...£10 an hour, and think it would be nice to earn £15 an hour, then base their pricing along those lines.

It was bad enough when guys did this coming into trad window cleaning, but as has also been said, window cleaning is pretty easy to get into, so it is not usually clued up business people who follow the window cleaning route, more your ordinary Joe's. and they don't really understand business, they lay out their redundancy money on possibly a system that is way too expensive, don't allow for business running costs and further investment etc and away they go thinking that the £20 quid they earn cleaning 3 houses in an hour means they are on 160 quid a day, £800 a week!!!............If only!
And they think someone charging 3 times what they are is a rip off merchant!

most fall by the wayside when after many months it finally dawns on them that this window cleaning lark isn't really such a simple or easy business to be in after all...

Ian

« **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:19:19 pm »

Quote from: DJW on February 20, 2008, 08:22:53 am

Is this the only trade where earnings are so important to everyone? It's a business so charge what you like and earn what you like. If your charging too much you will have no business in the end. Do these posts pop up on the carpet cleaning forums? Why do people feel the need to post their figures on here? I really don't understand it.

my take on it, its the same as some people like to brag how fast the car they drive goes, or how many pints they can drink etc etc

never really bothered me

he is a funny-ish story

i had a best mate in school, he was into his IT and star trek etc etc ( you get the picture )
i left school to do my carpentery in college and he was in the same doing a IT bridge course to go to uni, he went to uni for 7 years and ended up in a job in sony ( QA tester on TV's , nice little number ) he then ended up on a 2 years placement in japan with sony, lived in a box and watched TV every night
myself, i did my carpentery, then onto a HNC in building, all the time working and doing what young single men do

, i hadnt spoke to him since college ( so its got to be 15 years or more

last year i was invited to my mums best friends wedding anniversary , this guys parents were at the party to, i had my wife and daughter, my brother and his GF and my mum, i went to the bar to get some drinks and this guys dad speaks to me, he says
"oh hi matt, how it going"
great i reply
"i hear your a window cleaner now, whats your PA"
i laughed and walked off ( which i guess to some is rude )

now this guy didnt want to know about my wife or daughter, his first question was " whats your PA "

i guess some people are like that

« **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:36:22 pm »

Whats PA?

Does that make me an imbecile like that guys Dad?

« **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:39:09 pm »

Quote from: Matt B. on February 20, 2008, 05:36:22 pm

Whats PA?

Does that make me an imbecile like that guys Dad?

per annum

« **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:58:34 pm »

You do you have good insights Matt. The conversation was geared towards his sons present salary no doubt.To make matters worse sony's blue ray has made all out hd telly's worthless. I bet that's your bloody mate.

« **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2008, 06:00:09 pm »

Quote from: Tony G 1972 on February 20, 2008, 07:20:43 am

Some jobs are better than others. My best is a job that I get £100 for 1 & a quarter hours work. How you may ask? Well it used to take 2 of us nearly 4 hours (total) to do as every window had to be done by hand. Now I get asked when I am going to put prices up!

I think what I am trying to say is that I price my work as though it were being cleaned traditionally. I feel that is the only way to earn a decent wage from it. I have however noticed a lot of new people to the industry who price by the time it would take by pole and this is and will have a negative result on the prices that are achievable as these guys never used ladders. All my pre wfp work is now really well priced work and additional stuff in the same areas is exactly the same.

Just yesterday I cleaned 2 new houses in the same close. One at £17 and one at £14. A neighbour who had been watching came across and asked how much I charged. I looked at his house and it was roughly the same so i told him £14. He said he had a w/c before who had come and did his windows wfp but has never returned. He then explained that his charge was £6!! (no joke) I then retorted. "That's why he has not returned". He laughed and agreed to my price without any further hesitation.

I think this is an example of both ends of the scale.

Cheaper prices are even more noticeable with some commercial. I have been staggered at some of the prices I have found being charged.

Completly agree with that,you must price as if it was going to be done by hand otherwise your wasting your time.I know a guy who has just gone WFP and he`s doing £35 jobs for £20 cos he`s doing them quicker,that extra money is made cos your using the pole and by doing them cheaper he`ll have to do more work over the course of the week.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2008, 06:01:22 pm »

As Ian Giles nicely clarified earlier this is not about your "PA". It's about the figure you try to have in mind when you are pricing or working. We all know that per hour figure is not what we earn in net profit per hour, nor does it add up to a daily, weekly, monthly annual total.

It's the figure you try to aim for in your head when pricing and it's the figure you have as a target during the actual task you are working on.

It obviously varies considerably for at least 2 reasons:

1) Region - unlike many markets, trades such as ours is governed by the affluence of a population in a local area.
2) Overheads - you may be a one man band with a diy system working part time. You may be building a company employing staff and running expensive pro installed hot systems. Lots of variable in between.

Most are probably one or two team setups, my guess.

So it is interesting to see the results so far. Thanks for participating.

Poll

How much is an average WFP hourly rate where you are?