[matt]

Very entertaining 

But it's a moot argument.

Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.

That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.

Look forward to seeing the figures.


Ewan 

Turnover 3.4 billion with an investment of 1.54 pound sterling

Tony

did you go for the extra 10 amp fuse then, as that will account for the 4p , you had better watch it, you will be leaving the ranks of the " cobblers" soon

[macmac]

Very entertaining 

But it's a moot argument.

Those that disagree about the level of investment. why not post your
turnover for a year, along with the cost of your investment.

That way the rest of us can understand where you are coming from.

Look forward to seeing the figures.


Ewan 

Turnover 3.4 billion with an investment of 1.54 pound sterling

Tony

did you go for the extra 10 amp fuse then, as that will account for the 4p , you had better watch it, you will be leaving the ranks of the " cobblers" soon

No, i bridged it with fuse wire, the 1.54 was actually for second hand boot laces. after four years & many knots they finaly gave up on me. it pained me to spend such an amount in one year but i ran out of tie-wraps & washing line so i just thought stuff it, i'll treat myself, i work hard why not. mind, i want another four years out of these too or they'll be going back!

Tony

[P @ F]

I will , first year , 5000 van
                            2000 equip
                             1000 fuel
                              100 p.l
                               300 insurance ,van
                                320 resin
                                 150 water
                                  100 van tax

  9000 out , 25000 in .

 Now in my 2nd year outs down , ins up , thats all i have to say without my brief officer !

Not superb , but still a long way better than the rat race !

 Rich P @ F       

[P @ F]

And just to add to the last post , went out to work on saturday , not somthing i usually do , went to quote new job in fresh area , got job , did job , neighbours saw me working , got home with 1000 quids worth of extra work per year .

 Think i will do a few more saturdays from now on !

 Rich P @ F   

[Ian_Giles]

Various replies and insults deleted.

This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.

I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.

But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.

Ian

[Davo]

Could have had a great deal more valuable information out of this thread, however there are some on this forum that think anyone who turns over more than £1000 a week is a dreamer, and then resort to insults because they havent got a valid argument to substantiate their claims.


Quote

It is down to the individual not the tools.

The right tools and image might help but it wont give you a business.

I know guys in this business turning over £250k using home made systems and old vans.

Also know other guys turning over the same with off the shelf systems.

It is down to your own business accumin to succeed whatever tools you use.

Dave


Turnover of £250,000 a year !! By my reconing thats just short of £5 k a week thats a touch over £300 a day isnt it?

Just because you cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not true.. And there is a forum member who's business IMO will dwarf these figures.

Dissagree by all means, but information to support your view would be helpfull.

The liar liar pants on fire  doesnt really help.






Mark

[Moderator David@stives]

Mark

Are you calling me a liar !!!!!

Good job i didnt tell you about the guys who turn over even more than that.

Dave

[macmac]

Could have had a great deal more valuable information out of this thread, however there are some on this forum that think anyone who turns over more than £1000 a week is a dreamer, and then resort to insults because they havent got a valid argument to substantiate their claims.


Quote

It is down to the individual not the tools.

The right tools and image might help but it wont give you a business.

I know guys in this business turning over £250k using home made systems and old vans.

Also know other guys turning over the same with off the shelf systems.

It is down to your own business accumin to succeed whatever tools you use.

Dave


Turnover of £250,000 a year !! By my reconing thats just short of £5 k a week thats a touch over £300 a day isnt it?

Just because you cant comprehend it doesnt mean its not true.. And there is a forum member who's business IMO will dwarf these figures.

Dissagree by all means, but information to support your view would be helpfull.

The liar liar pants on fire  doesnt really help.






Mark

To make my possition clear-
I dont doubt the earnings of window cleaners, what i dissagree with is that you need a 25k set up to acheive them, you don't.
If i insult someone it's 'cos they insult me by assuming i don't earn top money, have good contracts or good customers, i do, & i don't have the 25k set up.

Tony

[Dean Aspects]

Various replies and insults deleted.

This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.

I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.

But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.

Ian

When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet

Dean

[windowwashers]

Various replies and insults deleted.

This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.

I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.

But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.

Ian

When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet

Dean

I used estate cars up till last year (sept time) I built every month regardless but find now I have the van we gets better priced work because it is people's perception, I am not knocking others that still use cars and are trad or wfp, been there done it and done ok from it too, times change I changed, and again doing ok from it and again changing business wise.

Every one will have a story to tell, you just have to work out which is fiction and non-fiction.

Ian

[Paul Coleman]

Various replies and insults deleted.

This is a good thread, with potential for good debate but it keeps descending into petty argument.

I personally have a 17k van and I guess I've spend about 5k on my system over the last 4 years or so.
At some point I'll spend another two and a half grand on a hot water conversion, shortly I'll be spending £300 or so on a new pole.
My van is sign written, my uniform is logo'd, it doesn't make me a better window cleaner, but it has probably drawn me in better contracts than I would have got were I still working out of the back of my car.
When my lease period is up, I shall hand in the van and get another brand new one.
I'm happy with my business, what I've done works for me...but I spent over 20 years working out the back of a cheap vehicle, operating on a shoestring all the time, so the best of luck to all who also work in that way, it did me no harm at all for most of my adult working life.

But for me at least, spending the money on image, expensive vans, poles whatever has certainly made a massive difference to my earnings.

Ian

When/What was the defining moment that made you change from working out of a car to going the professional route with the van and uniform etc..and how long did it take you to achieve this?
Did you do it with the round you had or did this have to change aswell?
Nosey arent i !! the reason i am asking is i am going through a transition stage at the moment and just wondered if i am professional enough with what i am doing or if i have more to do yet

Dean

I used a hatchback car for the first 9 months of window cleaning (91/92) and have used a van ever since.  I used much lighter vans until '05 as I was working the traditional way.  I did get nudged into it really.  The engine on my ancient hatchback was on the way out so I needed a replacement vehicle anyway.  Plus I lived on my own so did not need much seating.  I ended up with a Nissan Sunny van that I kept for 9 years.  I never sign wrote it or anything like that.  To me, it was just a car with 2 seats really.

[frames to panes]

Not only that, but you need to do the Maths, you might have better priced work but your going to need it or work longer hours to cover £25k and more of equipment. Does it make financial sense when it can be done at a fraction of the price? (not aimed at anyone specifically)

[Moderator David@stives]

I only got a van to accomodate wfp.

Maybe i wouldnt have gotten some of my contracts without my vans and wfp, but on the other hand i wouldnt be paying thousands for wfp and £500 a month in fuel £80- £160 a month in resin, £30'000 van repayments.


I used to use £100 a month in fuel, ah those were the days.

Dave

[frames to panes]

Fuel - this time last year £20 would get the needle to vertical now i need £25 Must be a huge difference for the haulage companies.

[Village Gleam]

Yes, that's the nub. I think my investment was about13k, but we're not actually talking about ourselves but the theory of it. Within reason the more you invest the greater the return. That's just a business fact.

What's implied is that people on the heavier investment side of the argument haven't been going long and therefore lack experience, or somehow overestimate their own achievments.

If I was your age DJW with your resources I would do things pretty much as you have. I've read your posts and think you've done very well. The theory side doesn't take into account that you have to pay bills etc which I don't.(any wc earnings of mine are on top of a high pre-existing income).

Your business is growing all the time and you are working very hard at it. Sooner or later you  will come on a par with people who have been operating ten or more years. What I am saying, or what the pro investment lobby are saying, is that with the higher investment (in other words if you'd have had the money to start with as I did), and with an 'all the right moves' marketing approach they could be 'caught' inside a year.

Not everyone sees life as the race I seem to think it is, and you will notice from Ian Giles's posts that he wandered in the wilderness for a few years before rediscovering a sence of purpose. So things don't always happen in a straight line.

There is a natural ceiling to our earnings anyway, and you will soon hit it. We are governed by what we are physicaly able to do on our own. So a good system that reduces effort, increases both self esteem, and others perceptions of us would seem to me a sound investment.

[D woods]

I filled my truck up yesterday £70

[matt]

The theory side doesn't take into account that you have to pay bills etc which I don't.(any wc earnings of mine are on top of a high pre-existing income).

so whats your other high income earner ?? ? ?  just interested ? ? ?

[Tosh]

Guys,

For me/us, window cleaning is just a means to an end.  I don't really care who has the newest van or latest pole; though I do meet up with Ian Giles for a beer (or two) on a fairly regular basis; we share the same local since we live fairly close to each other and I often call him names (to his face of course), 'cos he can earn more than Wor Lass 'n' I together!  I use a backpack; he's got a shiny sign-written van.

He's also got far better work than I (I've done some of it to cover when he's off on holiday); but it's taken him over twenty years, and we've been in the trade for five years; so I'm not jealous one little bit.  Many of his class accounts; large 3 storey stuff; he did for years from ladders; heavy HEAVY ones (I've borrowed them and not given them back; but I wouldn't like to work with them on a regular basis; no way).

But anyway, to me, window cleaning is an escape from the rat race.  In fact, I became a window cleaner to escape the stress of a well paid, but highly pressurised occupation; an occupation that had I stuck, I'd have gotten about 40K tax free and £500 per month pension at the age of 40 years old (only two years away now).

I don't have any regrets about leaving the army five years ago and giving up my pension (though I do get a a decent forces pension when I'm 60 (Inch Allah); money isn't everything; quality of life does it for me.

[frames to panes]

Mr Solubility thats the best post you have written - even i can understand that. I'm not always trying to prove anyone wrong but i do like to question things and try to understand other peoples views. I know for a fact that i am no business man (and never will be) i'm far too soft, slow to jump on an opportunity when it's staring me in the face and so can't always grasp how others work and drive to their fortune. I have a theory that anyone who is successfull in business could be transferred to any business with the same results. Several directors in the print industry hadn't a clue about the printing process but were a success in their feild.

[frames to panes]

Tosh that's exactly my views too. I could have stayed in the printing trade for a while longer (the firms stilll going - just) and i could be earning 50k a year but that would mean Treble shifts, compulsory overtime, ongoing paycuts and the most boring job on the planet.