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NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2008, 07:55:36 pm »
Also hard to express an opinion in words without it coming over as being balshy. Thats from both sides of any debate. So what starts out as a discussion tends to spiral downwards.
Tell me about it,but it beats emmerdale lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2008, 07:59:53 pm »
Wayne's is the sensible position, and the one that most have taken. It isn't the people who've bought expensive systems that try to justify themselves. They couldn't care less.

I do wish there was a forum though where you could swap ideas. Hot throws so many interesting possiblities up, and for early adopters the skys the limit.


Just read your post mark, very astute. I for instance seem quite disliked because i'm a bit/lot conceited. But I am very proud of my little van and it's system and don't see anything wrong with that.Just wait till I get my motorised reel working! In five years time hot will be increasingly the norm,and economics already dicate exactly which system type will win out.

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2008, 08:00:16 pm »
Also hard to express an opinion in words without it coming over as being balshy. Thats from both sides of any debate. So what starts out as a discussion tends to spiral downwards.

Yes, but if the poster questions the negative replies and asks if they use one or have done it would give them a better chance of digesting good info.
The trouble with doing that though is for new people to the forum, questioning an experienced poster could lead to personal attacks and peopel don't want to ruffle anyones feather when they are new.  

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2008, 08:03:06 pm »
Wayne's is the sensible position, and the one that most have taken. It isn't the people who've bought expensive systems that try to justify themselves. They couldn't care less.

I do wish there was a forum though where you could swap ideas. Hot throws so many interesting possiblities up, and for early adopters the skys the limit.


Just read your post mark, very astute. I for instance seem quite disliked because i'm a bit/lot conceited. But I am very proud of my little van and it's system and don't see anything wrong with that.Just wait till I get my motorised reel working! In five years time hot will be increasingly the norm,and economics already dicate exactly which system type will win out.

I do agree that in the not to distant future hot will be the norm,when most wc`s have got a system the hot users will be using hot over cold as a selling tool not much different to trad V WFP.

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2008, 08:11:39 pm »
Just read your post mark, very astute. I for instance seem quite disliked because i'm a bit/lot conceited. But I am very proud of my little van and it's system and don't see anything wrong with that.

 ;D
I remember when you congratulated ww for an answer that shut me up and did have a split second of resentment towards you. But its easy to take posts the wrong way, depending which way the wind is blowing that minute. Honesty and a lack of aggression has gone a long way to redeem you though.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2008, 10:04:11 pm »
I do agree that in the not to distant future hot will be the norm,when most wc`s have got a system the hot users will be using hot over cold as a selling tool not much different to trad V WFP.

There is no way in a million years that would happen!! Hot (luke warmish more like) systems are few and far between and will always be so as there is no real advantage of a normal system whatsoever. Pure water is pure water - that is the cleaning element, slightly warming it up does next to nothing.
You`ve started something now lol. ;D ;D ;D

*foxman

  • Posts: 250
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2008, 10:06:02 pm »
Gotta spice it up a bit otherwise it gets boring!! ;D ;)

poleman

  • Posts: 2854

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2008, 10:57:10 pm »
I've got a hot system. Will I post about it? Not anymore, don't need the negative comments, thank-you. I'm happy, I'll leave it at that.  If you want to compare hot/cold WFP ask Ionics for a demo.
wayne, it's people like you who i was hoping to get thier views on it not from people who don't have one but are prepared to slate the systems,
we had this some while back (if you all recall) from trad boys slating wfp boys and visa versa

suffice to say i would like positive or negative comments from people that use the system not from those who have never even seen one (myself included) let alone tried it out.
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

Wayne Thomas

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2008, 12:08:36 am »
I'm not trying to convince anybody that they would be better off using a hot WFP system over a cold WFP system, it's up to the individual if they think paying the extra money for the hot system is worth it. They also have to take into account the running costs, i.e. diesel or gas or whatever.
I wouldn't waste my money using a hot system if I couldn't clean windows quicker which saves time and increases my earnings.
The advantages I have found:
Hot water dries on glass quicker, so when the weather is bad, the water left on the glass dries quicker than cold, so less chance of collecting dust, sand,etc and low TDS rainwater.
Hot water shifts stubborn marks and breezes through initial cleans much simpler with less effort.
Customers can see the de-ionised water drying quickly which results in fewer complaints from awkward moaning customers who are at home whilst the window cleaning is being carried out who dislike WFP method.
Hot water softens the hose, keeping it supple instead of hard which enables the hose to be reeled in much simpler with fewer kinks, especially in the winter.
Hot water on large hot panes of glass in the summer dry better than cold water on large, hot panes of glass.
Able to work early on very cold mornings problem and stress free when cold WFP users are moaning that their hose, etc are all frozen. Last November I was working in minus 5 early in the morning without any hassles. No need to take everything out of the van on very cold nights just to put it all back in the van first thing in the morning.
One other reason I use hot WFP rather than cold is because I suffer from chronic arthritus so I want to make life as easy as possible for myself.
Hot WFP gets slagged by many, that's up to them, it's their decision and I respect that. I've made my choice and I wouldn't go back to cold WFP regardless of what people have to say about it.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2008, 06:19:58 am »
I for one will probably go the hot water route sometime in the future, providing I can find a reasonably affordable retro fit system, I believe Omnipole do one (don't know how affordable it is though!)

At the moment, the only opinions worth taking account of are the few people who have actually got the system and use it, and from the ones I have read they all seem to love it.

I can't get much quicker than I already am, but that isn't the point, it's about having a system that will clean more effectively and more efficiently, one that will deal with 'impacted soilage' and so on.

It's true that many non users of the system have slagged it off, but it's no more than conjecture. As more and more people evolve their systems we will get more sensible debate and advice....hopefully!

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2008, 06:30:48 am »
The argument about capitol investment or outlay is already won. Yes, it's worth it.
omni retro 2.5k, ionic /o2 circa 8.5k. That doesn't matter whichever way because the advantages are so huge.
The real debate is about the running costs. That's where even the hot users start to differ.

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2008, 07:04:09 pm »
Mr Solubility,.. which model Arazibo heater were you using, and what are you using now?

I have to say the DIY route seems the sensible option to me,.. I do see the advantages, but I don't see that they are big enough to justify the price tag Ionics etc put on it,.. not for me personally at least. Once its installed professionally there should be no worse safety concerns than with a branded system.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2008, 09:51:42 pm »
I can`t wait to go hot lol. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2008, 01:30:33 pm »
Oh I thought you'd never ask, my systems certainly the best hot system. I started with the Arizboa ( the smallest one whatever that is) and it worked fine. I got another because I was told it had to have something called a CE mark. So now I've got two, just as I have two reels and two vari pump boards.

How it works is I do not have a DI  on the van, the pure water goes  into my van tank at zero tds.The heater is after the pump but before the reel.A simple hoselock connection going in cold and a simple hoselock connection coming out hot. Four wing nuts attach the heater to some shelving type rails that in turn are secured to the van, and I could swap heaters over in under ten minutes. I could also bypass it completley if I wanted to by just taking the feed from the pump straight to the reel.

I've used it everyday for three months with no problems to speak of. The flow rate is high otherwise the main burner won't ignite. My vari has to be at two thirty, but i've found that by using the hose tap I can limit the amount of  water, and as a by product of this i also get a very pleasing thrishing noise along with clouds of steam as my brush glides over the glass. When customers are in and see and hear this from the inside they allways make favourable comments. It somehow just sort of looks right.

Thats why I like fan jets and flocked vikans. I use about 500l daily and this costs about one pound to make  hot.



I've been looking at these systems for ages, and personally I'm convinced this kind of setup (and the costs involved!) is right for me. I would be thinking of a slightly more complex setup with a thermostatic mixer tap prior to the hose reel just to be doubly sure that my hose doesn't get melted if the burner fails to switch off for some reason!
What kind of gas cylinder do you use, and how is it secured in your vehicle?

Does the back of the heater get hot at all,.. do you need any heatproof/flameproof board enclosing it/ separating the back of the heater from the wall of the van?

Is your new heater vented or not? I'm looking for a suitable flue kit to put out the roof of my van, as I'm often out of sight of the van when working and I don't want to leave the doors open!

Do you have any kind of thermometer in the system? What temp water would you say hits the glass normally?

Fancy posting some pics? (Or email some to me if you don't want to post them here?)

twt

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2008, 06:17:17 pm »
Mr solubility im interested in your set up would you be able to post some pictures and tell us where you sourced youre heater and what is the cost to set up.
thanks phil

twt

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2008, 04:26:38 pm »
thanks for that mr solubility does your insurance company know about the gas bottle in your van and if so how does it affect your premium? also does it have to be proffessionally installed or did you install it yourself?

Count Phil

  • Posts: 656
Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2008, 04:32:32 pm »
I'm sure I gave Mr Solubility his name.

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2008, 06:14:23 pm »
 He's deleted some of his posts - why? It all looked well behaved to me. ???

macmac

Re: ionics thermal
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2008, 06:33:56 pm »
The argument about capitol investment or outlay is already won. Yes, it's worth it.
omni retro 2.5k, ionic /o2 circa 8.5k. That doesn't matter whichever way because the advantages are so huge.
The real debate is about the running costs. That's where even the hot users start to differ.

Mr. Sol
I do like your posts but i think your a bit miss-guided on this one.
The argument about capitol investment or outlay is not at all won!
If you think it is then you are infact, so much miss-guided your posts can't be taken seriousley! what you think is relevant is actually the wrong way round ;)

Tony