[mark dew]

tenet is from cov. I've got some mates up there and have been visiting a couple of times in the past. 1 time i had to be chaperoned   around 1 estate. Can't remember the name now though. Not my choice, my mates. From an outsiders perspective cov estates were an eye opener.
I can see where and why he is fussy over where he will work. It doesn't make him the anti christ though, or racist or sexist or homophobic... yawn yawn yawn. Can see why he's getting flak from ex estate bods though. Roll on closing time!!

[L.J.Thorpe]

mark you really are the epitomy of diplomacy and you make a valid point .........COVENTRY IS A SH$$ HOLE FULL OF TOSSERS ,WITH NO HOPE OF SALVATION

[L.J.Thorpe]

JOKE sorry could not stop myself

[L.J.Thorpe]

i was going to say something similar but profile says coventry so it may be different there...I can only speak about council estates in my area and generally we have a lot less crime round here however its still tarring every one who lives on a council estate with the same brush which seems a bit harsh

see 

[Tim Rose]

How you conduct your business is none of our concern and I for one wish you all the best with it.

I would like to point out to Rosy et al that my sentiments are those of somebody who does not like to see discrimination of any sort.  

"Does not like to see"? That'sa bit like, "I hate to see blacks burning at the stake, but glad I'm not black" sort of post.  RIDICULOUS!


Come off it, we all have our prejudices, we are ALLOWED to be prejudiced, and i think that's far from a bad thing. Its far from a bad thing socially, as I will hate the day where we all become uniform monotonous robots, and it's a bad thing for work, because you should speak as you find, and if you find Asians to be crap to work for, then why not air your prejudice? Noone has to listen, and you're not bothering anyone as we've heard it all before anyway.

So because we have one bad experience then it is ok to categorise an entire section of the community like that?  Even worse, to spread this predjudice in public (or private, depending on what you class this forum as...) shows a total lack of moral standards, tact and manners to say the least.  As can be seen by the reactions in this thread of many people who grew up on council estates, the generalisation made about people from council estates was clearly ill-informed, no matter how 'valid' the staters experience was.  Does a couple of bad experiences make a LARGE section of the British public not 'posh' enough to work for?  As I said, freedom of thought rarely comes first for those who cry about freedom of speech...

When did anyone start slagging off homos? Not me, not anyone as far as I can tell. When did we pick on jews? Never. When did blacks get the 'treatment'? Never. It's all pie in the sky.

But its ok to 'slag off' (as you so elequently put it),  people who happen to reside in houses built be local authorities?  Same thing.  Discrimination and predjudice.  eh?  I went to a sec modern school too mate.

link=topic=49606.msg411954#msgEloquent,411954 date=1201890450]
Council estates? I don't work them, and if I can stay out of them you bet I bloody well do, only venturing there for one offs. Doesn't make me a Nazi, black-lynching, jew-hating woman-hater.

Venturing in there?  Seems [DONT you worry about the way I 'feel' mate.  You have no idea how I feel about the underclass. I spent six years selling the Big Issue so I reckon I know about being 'low'.  DON't INSULT  ME. you feel the same way as TennetClean in your assumptions about people who  live on council estates...  Maybe it does'nt make you a black hating woman beater or whatever, but it sure makes you ignorant and pathetic.  I suggest you get out more.  See where airing your predjudices gets you... That is disgusting.  Have you ever slept on a cardboard box, Sanity? Have you any idea what its like to eat cold pizza out of a wet box off the pavement?  I did that for two years mate. Dont talk to me about equality.

My dear TennetClean.  You are clearly out of your depth where this discussion is concerned when you make such statements as you did above.  I will try to address your query in as simple a way as possible, using small words where I can...

I haven't said anything about races, sexuality and so on.

You don't need to.  You made statements that could be taken as predjudice, derogatory and wrong.  
(link attached so you can look up the meaning of the word...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of different groups of people based on certain characteristics.

Apply for a loan anywhere and you'll find that one of the questions they will ask is if you are a homeowner, private tennant or a council tennant etc. Will they make a judgement about your credit worthiness on the basis of that? YES

Actually, this is a RISK assessment, not a 'worthiness test'.

Is that discrimination YES.

Actually it is differentiation, see attached link to meaning of discrimination.

Why do they do it?

Risk,as I have just explained.  But, hang on.  I live in a private 3 bed semi, with decking, double glazing and a 200k mortgage.  Yet I find it difficult to get a bank account and credit card.  Is that because I am a council tennant?  NO.  It is because I am a credit RISK!.   So, it is not just council tennants that are financial risks...

Council tennants are a financial risk to you are they?  Well, ask them to pay up front.  I am sure they won't mind.

We are in business too, and in my opinion it makes sense to be )discriminating (actually, this word should be discerning, but I shan't critisise your education level)... about the customers you choose if you want to earn good money.

I agree, one should be discerning in ones choice of customers, although doing it to maximise profit is questionable.  I personally select my customers based upon my ability to do the job.  If I can do it, I get a customer.  If I can't I don't.  simple.  As long as I make my wages, I don't mind who I work for...

I have merely explained things as I personally have found them with council estates. You saying that all generalisations are the same is simply a load of pants.  

You have not 'merely explained' at all.  you made a series of derogatory, discriminatory and predjudicial comments about a large section of the British public.  Generalisations are all 'generally speaking ) wrong.

What about this one: I have generally found that drug dealers are scummy people. Does that make me racist too? What about this: I have generally found that women talk more than men do. Am I sexist for thinking that?

The first is a moral judgement, that fits with the majority view and therefore is one that is not predjudicial but is discriminatory.  If you had said 'white drug dealers' are scummy, then that would have been racist as you have brought race (which is actually a non-existant construct) to discriminate and cause you to express a predjudicial view.
The second point.  No.  Your statement is entirely correct.  Women are more social than men and therefore are liable to talk more as part of their social networking.  Men tend to be insular and as such suffer more depressive mental illnesses than women and are more likely to commit suicide.

But if you had said that ALL women talk more than men, that would have been a generalisation, but not untrue.

I know what I am talking about my friend, so maybe this 'winding the neck in' is something you ought to take your own advice upon...

[Tim Rose]

How you conduct your business is none of our concern and I for one wish you all the best with it.

I would like to point out to Rosy et al that my sentiments are those of somebody who does not like to see discrimination of any sort.  

"Does not like to see"? That'sa bit like, "I hate to see blacks burning at the stake, but glad I'm not black" sort of post.  RIDICULOUS!


Come off it, we all have our prejudices, we are ALLOWED to be prejudiced, and i think that's far from a bad thing. Its far from a bad thing socially, as I will hate the day where we all become uniform monotonous robots, and it's a bad thing for work, because you should speak as you find, and if you find Asians to be crap to work for, then why not air your prejudice? Noone has to listen, and you're not bothering anyone as we've heard it all before anyway.

So because we have one bad experience then it is ok to categorise an entire section of the community like that?  Even worse, to spread this predjudice in public (or private, depending on what you class this forum as...) shows a total lack of moral standards, tact and manners to say the least.  As can be seen by the reactions in this thread of many people who grew up on council estates, the generalisation made about people from council estates was clearly ill-informed, no matter how 'valid' the staters experience was.  Does a couple of bad experiences make a LARGE section of the British public not 'posh' enough to work for?  As I said, freedom of thought rarely comes first for those who cry about freedom of speech...

When did anyone start slagging off homos? Not me, not anyone as far as I can tell. When did we pick on jews? Never. When did blacks get the 'treatment'? Never. It's all pie in the sky.

But its ok to 'slag off' (as you so elequently put it),  people who happen to reside in houses built be local authorities?  Same thing.  Discrimination and predjudice.  eh?  I went to a sec modern school too mate.

link=topic=49606.msg411954#msgEloquent,411954 date=1201890450]
Council estates? I don't work them, and if I can stay out of them you bet I bloody well do, only venturing there for one offs. Doesn't make me a Nazi, black-lynching, jew-hating woman-hater.

Venturing in there?  Seems [DONT you worry about the way I 'feel' mate.  You have no idea how I feel about the underclass. I spent six years selling the Big Issue so I reckon I know about being 'low'.  DON't INSULT  ME. you feel the same way as TennetClean in your assumptions about people who  live on council estates...  Maybe it does'nt make you a black hating woman beater or whatever, but it sure makes you ignorant and pathetic.  I suggest you get out more.  See where airing your predjudices gets you... That is disgusting.  Have you ever slept on a cardboard box, Sanity? Have you any idea what its like to eat cold pizza out of a wet box off the pavement?  I did that for two years mate. Dont talk to me about equality.

My dear TennetClean.  You are clearly out of your depth where this discussion is concerned when you make such statements as you did above.  I will try to address your query in as simple a way as possible, using small words where I can...

I haven't said anything about races, sexuality and so on.

You don't need to.  You made statements that could be taken as predjudice, derogatory and wrong.  
(link attached so you can look up the meaning of the word...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination Discrimination is the prejudicial treatment of different groups of people based on certain characteristics.

Apply for a loan anywhere and you'll find that one of the questions they will ask is if you are a homeowner, private tennant or a council tennant etc. Will they make a judgement about your credit worthiness on the basis of that? YES

Actually, this is a RISK assessment, not a 'worthiness test'.

Is that discrimination YES.

Actually it is differentiation, see attached link to meaning of discrimination.

Why do they do it?

Risk,as I have just explained.  But, hang on.  I live in a private 3 bed semi, with decking, double glazing and a 200k mortgage.  Yet I find it difficult to get a bank account and credit card.  Is that because I am a council tennant?  NO.  It is because I am a credit RISK!.   So, it is not just council tennants that are financial risks...

Council tennants are a financial risk to you are they?  Well, ask them to pay up front.  I am sure they won't mind.

We are in business too, and in my opinion it makes sense to be )discriminating (actually, this word should be discerning, but I shan't critisise your education level)... about the customers you choose if you want to earn good money.

I agree, one should be discerning in ones choice of customers, although doing it to maximise profit is questionable.  I personally select my customers based upon my ability to do the job.  If I can do it, I get a customer.  If I can't I don't.  simple.  As long as I make my wages, I don't mind who I work for...

I have merely explained things as I personally have found them with council estates. You saying that all generalisations are the same is simply a load of pants.  

You have not 'merely explained' at all.  you made a series of derogatory, discriminatory and predjudicial comments about a large section of the British public.  Generalisations are all 'generally speaking ) wrong.

What about this one: I have generally found that drug dealers are scummy people. Does that make me racist too? What about this: I have generally found that women talk more than men do. Am I sexist for thinking that?

The first is a moral judgement, that fits with the majority view and therefore is one that is not predjudicial but is discriminatory.  If you had said 'white drug dealers' are scummy, then that would have been racist as you have brought race (which is actually a non-existant construct) to discriminate and cause you to express a predjudicial view.
The second point.  No.  Your statement is entirely correct.  Women are more social than men and therefore are liable to talk more as part of their social networking.  Men tend to be insular and as such suffer more depressive mental illnesses than women and are more likely to commit suicide.
WHAT?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
But if you had said that ALL women talk more than men, that would have been a generalisation, but not untrue. Utterly sexist, of course.

I know what I am talking about my friend, so maybe this 'winding the neck in' is something you ought to take your own advice upon...

[jonah]

rosy you need to get out more ! must of taken ages to get those boxes with them quotes in em !  In my  spare time I collect stamps .....takes me ages to steam em off and re send em !

[Tim Rose]

Only took three days.

  Oh, did I say, Pinch punch (in the mouth) first of the month?

[ronaldo]

7 pages of mostly shi*e i think the majority of you need to get a life and this pile of dross should be well and truly locked.

[jonah]

Thanks for that in depth analysis ronaldo ! We could use men like u on here

[L.J.Thorpe]

7 pages of mostly shi*e i think the majority of you need to get a life and this pile of dross should be well and truly locked.

he has  apoint this is getting effing stupid (why is rosy a guest now???)oh and ronaldo who was the carrot character in your lads home work??? i gots to know

[Sanity]

Show me which of your comments were business orientated?  The one about dog-poo?  Thieving kids?  Chavs?  you talk more sh*te than you ever dragged your hose through.

1st class degree in Mental Health Nursing.  (with my dissertation being about, amongst other things, the reasons for the higher suicide rate amongst men than women, yet higher numbers of attempts by women than men.)

Does this identify me as someone short in the brains department?  

You have changed your stance from one of discriminating about the council estates due to dog-toffee and thieving kids to one of discerning business accumen.  A man of principle too I see.

Enjoy your simple minded discussion.

[Sir Squeaky]

What the hell are you lot arguing about?

Looks like I missed all the fun.
For my bit...

I don't work in the crappy areas, it too much bother and too little money.

[shammy davis jnr]

salt off the earth people council estates most tip at christmas and the old dears will chase you three blocks to pay you dont get that in spam want to be valley morgage to the hilt ticked up bmw in drive i find the in between estates the worst both for trying to bump you and think that they own you as a personal cleaner ,but cant aford you any way ...........then you get the realy rich who are great as well dont forget where they come from and let you name the price and also offer you a cuppa funny the difrent lay out off things just my opinion our does anyone else feel the same

[jonah]

Time please gentlemen !  please dont cross swords we all have our opinions and we can agre to dissagree .

[L.J.Thorpe]

salt off the earth people council estates most tip at christmas and the old dears will chase you three blocks to pay you dont get that in spam want to be valley morgage to the hilt ticked up bmw in drive i find the in between estates the worst both for trying to bump you and think that they own you as a personal cleaner ,but cant aford you any way ...........then you get the realy rich who are great as well dont forget where they come from and let you name the price and also offer you a cuppa funny the difrent lay out off things just my opinion our does anyone else feel the same

yes yes and yes again when this recession really starts to bite its all these credit monkeys who will drop you like hot dog turd

[Sir Squeaky]

salt off the earth people council estates most tip at christmas and the old dears will chase you three blocks to pay you dont get that in spam want to be valley morgage to the hilt ticked up bmw in drive i find the in between estates the worst both for trying to bump you and think that they own you as a personal cleaner ,but cant aford you any way ...........then you get the realy rich who are great as well dont forget where they come from and let you name the price and also offer you a cuppa funny the difrent lay out off things just my opinion our does anyone else feel the same

yes yes and yes again when this recession really starts to bite its all these credit monkeys who will drop you like hot dog turd

I'm not worried about that either.
I don't do much of the credit-monkey new estates either.

85% of my work is cottages in villages, and they're not a worry.

[TennetClean]

sanity mate, I ain't impressed with your degree, and the fact that you felt the need to raise that says more about your own insecurities than anything else IMO.  And i don't care about what you think about me personally.  This is just not a personal issue.

There are lots of reasons i don't work council areas, those are a few.

This was a relatively simple discussion, you decided to start banging on about racism and sexism and nazis etc.  You are a man looking for an argument where one didn't exist, probably because you were offended by the fact that I refuse to work council estates.  You don't need to be arguing on here with me, because I just don't care.  Instead you need to get out more.  (Perhaps join a debating society?)

You sound like you're in the window cleaning business to serve the people.  Personally I find that pretty hilarious, but each to his own.

And for what its worth Squeeky clean has summed up the issue perfectly

[matt]

Why avoid them? plenty of reasons.

1. you may not want a tribe of kids following you round your round singing george formby and trying to steal things out of your van

2. Council estates are dog poo city

3. the people (in the main) are scruffy work-shy dole-claiming layabouts and it offends me to have to be near them

4. they wont pay high prices becuase they do not have much money (but somehow manage to chan smoke and play the lottery every week)

5. They try to get you to do either more work for no more money, or at least haggle on price

6. you may not want to come back to your van to find the window smashed and the radio missing

7. the areas are grim and depressing

8. the people are grim and depressing, and often stupid

9. council estates attract chavs like poo attracts flies (I hate chavs)

10. Most important of all: there are plenty of customers to be had in areas with none of the above negatives, so there is simply no need to bother with them

nuff said

idiot post of the year

for the record, i steer clear of council estate, but thats only because i have taken over rounds and dont need to do other area's

[matt]

tenet is from cov. I've got some mates up there and have been visiting a couple of times in the past. 1 time i had to be chaperoned  around 1 estate. Can't remember the name now though. Not my choice, my mates. From an outsiders perspective cov estates were an eye opener.

thats not just council estates in cov, thats the whole of cov