[frames to panes]

Just lost another one tonight this is about the fourth in a row, they all have sealed units that have gone and are blaming me for putting condensation inside of them!! I can't take much more. :

[Captain Scarlet]

The first time I do any job I tell them off all the imperfections with their windows. For example about 3 jobs I have all have broken sealed units which means that after cleaning they look as if they are still really dirty, so I told them all after finishing the first time that this was the case, they were all fine with it and understood that it isnt my fault they appear dirty! Luke

[Pole2pole]

I know the feeling. Aint had any cancellations but it's certainly noticeable. But if it aint on the inside and it aint on the outside, we can hardly be held accountable. Tell the tightwads it's time to upgrade them.  

[frames to panes]

Trouble is they may have been fine a year ago when i took them on, but when they go the customers blame me and my wfp system. Sod them all.

[Pole2pole]

That's the spirit fella. We get blamed enough in this job. I would never take the flack cos they're too tight too change their windows after 20 years. 

[EasycleanWindows]

This is what i have been told and i stick by it with customers. When you get the blame see how many windows have "steamed" up if one tell them it cant be you or the whole house would be "steamed up"

There is allways moisture in between the 2 pieces of glass but what happens is this and is what you can tell your customers.

You know the small packet of silica gel you find in shoe boxes well the silver seal of a window contains exactly that silica gel however as i said there is moisture between the 2 panes all the time but it is the silica gel that absorbs this moisture therefore clear glass. But when the silica gel like a sponge cannot absorb anymore moisture it is then when you get the "steamed" up effect nothing to do with water on the glass but simly that the silica no longer works .

[[GQC] Tim]

Interesting, so because more moisture enters the window due to broken seals, the more saturated the silica gel gets, the more clouded the window, because more condensation forms.

Brilliant.

[frames to panes]

 
I thought the units were vacuum sealed so there was nothing between the panes. Surely the condensation happens when air gets in and condenses with temperature changes?

[EasycleanWindows]

Yep but like i said if you ever have a customer say you made it happen look at all the other windows they have and say" well it cant be me because the rest are ok " and another reason it breaks down is simply because of poor manufacuring.

Oh and also if they have had the windows cleaned by a tradiotioanl window cleaner i:e washing up liquid the chemicals in the washing up liquid can damage the seal.

 Although there many reasons why a double glazed sealed unit may mist up inside when it has 'broken down' due to premature failure of the perimeter seal, the cause will either be down to how the sealed unit was made, how the framework it is fitted into was made, or how the double glazed sealed unit was fitted into the framework. On top of this environment conditions may play a part, such as wind or sonic loads, and possible exposure of the perimeter seal to aggressive chemicals such as those found in washing up liquid.

[Davo]

I thought the units were vacuum sealed so there was nothing between the panes. Surely the condensation happens when air gets in and condenses with temperature changes?

No they arent vacuum sealed, just everyday air between the two panes of glass.



Mark

[EasycleanWindows]

http://www.alldoubleglazing.co.uk/double-glazing-condensation.asp

 One of the most common problems with double glazing is when condensation begins to form between the two panes.

When the sealed units are manufactured the air gap usually contains dehydrated air, or inert gases, and the spacer contains a silica gel which drys out moisture.

Over time, the seal can back down somewhere around the unit, moisture is let in, and once the gel has absorbed as much moisture as it can - condensation begins to form between the two panes of glass.

The only way to solve this is to replace the sealed unit.

Many suppliers of double glazing offer a long guarantee for the windows they installed, so with any luck your replacements will be covered - otherwise it's a case of requesting some quotes.

[EasycleanWindows]

from another website..


I disagree with Simon's answer. I spent several years in the manufacturer of double glazed windows. These units do not have a vacuum of gas between the glass. No gas is pumped into the unit the moisture prevention is taken care of by the moisture absorption properties of the decassent used in the frames.

[frames to panes]

I thought the units were vacuum sealed so there was nothing between the panes. Surely the condensation happens when air gets in and condenses with temperature changes?

No they arent vacuum sealed, just everyday air between the two panes of glas



Mark

Argon gas according to one site.

[EasycleanWindows]

Well id still say it wasn't you fault of all the other windows are ok it cant be if they want to argue about it then let your insurance company argue about it ...oh and when i first started back in 10bc with Tucker Poles they never ever mentioned that these systems could damage double glazed windows....oh maybe because they dont............they have been used to years and if it was wfp then they would have been out of the industry years ago.

[frames to panes]

http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/misty-upvc-ali.htm

Interesting reading, maybe the water is a bad thing?

[jeff1]

I have a custy with Argon gas filled windows, I only noticed this because

It says it on the window, why it caught my eye was many years ago when I was in the security Trade I used to  go to RNAS Yeovilton to service the fire and alarm system in the Radar training room, in this room was a 50ltr drum of argon gas, if the fire alarm was activated it would set the argon gas off, this would suffocate you if you stayed in the room, why? I'll tell you in lay mans terms, because it sucks all the air out, so it must work along the same principle inside a double glazed unit.

[frames to panes]

Apparently, argon gas is not the norm, neither is a vacuum (not intentionally anyway) so maybe our systems do accelerate premature sealed unit failure what does everyone else think?

[xxmattyxx]

Various gases are used nowadays as theyre better for insulation.

Ask any architect, its buildings regs.

Matt

[[GQC] Tim]

Vacuum wouldn't insulate your house. As far as I know, the gas barrier, whatever gas it is, creates a layer that 'stops' cold, or heat.

[L.J.Thorpe]

all depends on the unit  fitted some are filled with air some partial vacuum some argon and also krypton (really) partial vacuums reduce heat loss to some extent but inert gas works better all said tho they dont start steaming up till the seal gets blown (there might be a joke in there somewhere)