[frames to panes]

.......... light the blue touchpaper.

[mark dew]

I can't see why anyone gets flak over how much they have spent on equipment. wfp, van, hot water system etc. We all want to make our working life easier or at least more efficient and it's always the people who don't have the kit who dishes it out.
I've often been asked how much i've spent on wfp by my customers and when i tell them over 3k they all go phewwww. But when i tell them i could have gone wfp for around £500, but as i do it commercially i need kit to cover all options they understand and many comment about my committment.
We need to realise that whatever we wear, drive, present ourselves to customers and the kit we use is a form of marketing ourselves anyway.
I'm sure i'm not the only 1 but i have picked up work at better prices than i could have achieved with a car and ladder, since i got a van and wfp.
Though i'm sure there are trad only guys on here thinking it's rubbish cos they command good prices too without van and wfp.
While our working goals are similar we are all different and will choose different ways to improve ourselves cos it fits in with how we feel about what we need.
This forum is a much better place for balanced opinions now than 2 years ago, since the trad Vs wfp and factory built over diy dabates have matured.
 

[macmac]

Matt I appreciate your point of view, however, the "Im only a window cleaner" mind set can affect the work you take on and the prices that you can achieve ON CERTAIN JOBS.

Granted most people wont pay large sums of money to have their windows cleaned, no matter how nice the van the logo the leaflet you put through their door. BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT THEIR WINDOWS CLEANED.

However there are certain jobs, such as conservatory cleans, soffits facias etc, that present an oportunity to earn a higher rate ( its not cleaning windows, its a different service so the customer doesnt really know how much they should be paying for that type of work)
Now as "only the window cleaner" you may think ok soffits, gutters facias (PVCu Clean) cleaning, 1 hrs worth of work Ill charge her £60 ( good hourly rate for "only a window cleaner")

BUT the same 1 hour PVCu clean could be worth £150  IF YOU MARKET YOURSELF PROPERLY.


Now I would have thought an extra £90 for an hours work is worth opening your eyes and ears for. Saying that "Im not a window cleaner" Im only a  sales man.



Mark

Davo
Most w/c'ers already know all this, we're not thick. do you honestly think your oppinions are something new, enlightening? they're not mate. It's basic business skills or - common sense.
Most w/c'ers know how to get the best money per situation & know of the other services they could provide should they wish or be arsed to do so.
There are many definitions to the word "success"

Tony

OK then mac mac then why do so many posters on this forum shout down anyone who obtains good rates for their work? A recent poster re conservatory cleans was given the " oh another dreamer" type reception. If all the members of this forum already "know" all this "basic" business stuff then why do posters still post questions regarding aspects of marketing?

Obviously someone such as yourself who already knows  should put fingers to keyboard and help them out a little.

I look forward to your detailed post on marketing PVCu cleans, as Im sure will others on this forum. 


Oh and a quick paragraph on "price conditioning " would be good too.



Mark

You going out & cleaning some windows, dealing with w/c customers first hand & talking from experience I, too will look forward to. Theory is for people with too much time on their hands!

Tony

[macmac]

As for the 1 hour PVC clean= quote 150, tells you to get lost, 60 & get the job.
So YOU would have lost 60 quid & NOT gained 90.
I, on the other hand would have gained 60 quid

What about that side of the coin?
Hows that song go? "so why you wanna go & put stars in their eyes"

Tony

[Village Gleam]

Mark Dew very good post. Maybe you put the argument a little better than we did and it is more acceptable.

MacMac, we all thought you were going to blow your stack and you didn't so good for you. I will say though that Davo has put several interesting ideas forward before now and altered my approach a couple of times. I haven't got my first year in yet MacMac but I am finding building a business very exciting. Sometimes I want to share that, and as i've said before I always regard other fforum members as my co directors. As I work alone this is the only feedback I get.

[matt]

I can't see why anyone gets flak over how much they have spent on equipment. wfp, van, hot water system etc. We all want to make our working life easier or at least more efficient and it's always the people who don't have the kit who dishes it out.
I've often been asked how much i've spent on wfp by my customers and when i tell them over 3k they all go phewwww. But when i tell them i could have gone wfp for around £500, but as i do it commercially i need kit to cover all options they understand and many comment about my committment.
We need to realise that whatever we wear, drive, present ourselves to customers and the kit we use is a form of marketing ourselves anyway.
I'm sure i'm not the only 1 but i have picked up work at better prices than i could have achieved with a car and ladder, since i got a van and wfp.
Though i'm sure there are trad only guys on here thinking it's rubbish cos they command good prices too without van and wfp.
While our working goals are similar we are all different and will choose different ways to improve ourselves cos it fits in with how we feel about what we need.
This forum is a much better place for balanced opinions now than 2 years ago, since the trad Vs wfp and factory built over diy dabates have matured.
 

i also tell my commercail customers ive spent over 4 K on my system, its what they want to hear when i go in for site meetings / sales pitch etc etc, but the truth is, i then arrive and do the job with my DIY system, the end result is the same, they are happy with my H&S outlook and the glass it clean

[TennetClean]

so you're a liar then?

[Village Gleam]

Mark said this forum is a better place since the WFP over trad, and DIY over factory systems debates have matured. And they have matured (apart from us calling each other liars).

Your original ethos Matt when you started the DIY site was to help any WC get set up WFP on a shoestring budget. I'm sure you helped a lot of people. You helped me.

That was the first wave though, and we are past that. Take the 17'xtel fibreglass telescopic at £65. Why should you need to build a pole? My vikan brush with fan jets is fantastic, what are they twenty five quid?

No one builds there own computers anymore do they? you just buy one. Write your own programmes? why?

What people want now is rainwater harvesting systems, hot systems at affordable prices, electric reels.And more importantly there are other aspects to DIY, such as DIY marketing. Mark Dew doesn't employ a marketing manager, he does it himself. If I can nick an idea off him I will, and I'm sure he'd do the same.

The people slating me as a flash git with an eight page glossy leaflet, super sonic system, and a bloke who needs to 'get real' should realise my leaflet is A5 has two sides and includes a good photo and comment from myself. I don't claim to be honest, or even friendly and reliable, people can see me and make their own mind up.

That's my idea of DIY marketing, paying £140 for 10,000 supplying the copy and a jpeg. I've spent the last year covered in ink printing my own, and this is a much more cost effective option.

[Village Gleam]

Thats an accountantcy ratio. They use it as a tool to judge one against another.

WC has a very low investment. Even a top end system is pennies in these terms. No premises, no stock to buy etc.

[matt]

so you're a liar then?

no, not at all

" my system " i use loosely, it could include my van, it could include my IT set-up

[frames to panes]

Mr Solubility, i don't remember you getting slated as such, i merely questioned as to wether it was worth doing for the domestic customer, wether it would be wasted to have all the technology etc. I don't know. I had thought you were a long established cleaner in the business of wfp and as it turns out you are a reletive newbie much like myself. Perhaps when you have become more established and then can see a positive return for your ideas then let us know if it works. I don't understand how you know your right when you've not come that far?

[Davo]

As for the 1 hour PVC clean= quote 150, tells you to get lost, 60 & get the job.
So YOU would have lost 60 quid & NOT gained 90.
I, on the other hand would have gained 60 quid

What about that side of the coin?
Hows that song go? "so why you wanna go & put stars in their eyes"

Tony

Now Mac Mac...I'll put you straight, the way I work I would have had a chance at £190 at £150 at £100 and £80, all before I settled on £60( If I had to). And thats why you aint the sharpest tool in the box.

But good luck anyway. Still waiting for your expert advice on Marketing PVCu cleans. See youve got me giving you snippets of what to do now....you are a crafty fella aint ya.


Mark

[macmac]

As for the 1 hour PVC clean= quote 150, tells you to get lost, 60 & get the job.
So YOU would have lost 60 quid & NOT gained 90.
I, on the other hand would have gained 60 quid

What about that side of the coin?
Hows that song go? "so why you wanna go & put stars in their eyes"

Tony

Now Mac Mac...I'll put you straight, the way I work I would have had a chance at £190 at £150 at £100 and £80, all before I settled on £60( If I had to). And thats why you aint the sharpest tool in the box.

But good luck anyway. Still waiting for your expert advice on Marketing PVCu cleans. See youve got me giving you snippets of what to do now....you are a crafty fella aint ya.


Mark

190 down to 60 : That's a realy good way of selling your expert service. What must the customer think when they realise you were standing there trying to rip them off good & proper? ALARM BELLS START RINGING! something not right here, that's less than a third of what you just quoted 2 mins ago are you dodgy, insured, con-man- well you are a con man, you just tried to take me for 130 quid for a service your now admitting is only worth 60 quid now off you go I'll get the regular guy (who i trust) to do it.

I'll repeat myself just for you davo :
Theory is for people who have too much time on their hands & no common sense. It also shows in this case you have no knowlage of 99% of w/c'ers customers.

You've been to too many seminars lad.

Tony

[Davo]

As for the 1 hour PVC clean= quote 150, tells you to get lost, 60 & get the job.
So YOU would have lost 60 quid & NOT gained 90.
I, on the other hand would have gained 60 quid

What about that side of the coin?
Hows that song go? "so why you wanna go & put stars in their eyes"

Tony

Now Mac Mac...I'll put you straight, the way I work I would have had a chance at £190 at £150 at £100 and £80, all before I settled on £60( If I had to). And thats why you aint the sharpest tool in the box.

But good luck anyway. Still waiting for your expert advice on Marketing PVCu cleans. See youve got me giving you snippets of what to do now....you are a crafty fella aint ya.


Mark

190 down to 60 : That's a realy good way of selling your expert service. What must the customer think when they realise you were standing there trying to rip them off good & proper? ALARM BELLS START RINGING! something not right here, that's less than a third of what you just quoted 2 mins ago are you dodgy, insured, con-man- well you are a con man, you just tried to take me for 130 quid for a service your now admitting is only worth 60 quid now off you go I'll get the regular guy (who i trust) to do it.

I'll repeat myself just for you davo :
Theory is for people who have too much time on their hands & no common sense. It also shows in this case you have no knowlage of 99% of w/c'ers customers.

You've been to to many seminars lad.

Tony

Mac Mac..your post really does show your naivety about how the sales process works. You are like many amateur sales people I meet, they think they have the gift of the gab, can sell sand to the arabs etc.

There are things that can be said to customers which enable you to drop your price without losing any credability. But for me to explain them to yourself would be a total waste of time, you havent grasped the basics yet. Unfortuantely with your own perception of yourself you have nothing to learn. I am fortunate I learn something every day.

Oh and although I sell products to members of the public for a few thousand pounds a time, the same principles work on a £1000 sale as they do on a £10 sale.

You seem to think that the rules that apply to sales and marketing somehow dont apply to people who have their windows cleaned. Are you aware of how absurd that is?

As for the "you've been to too many seminars laddy" I dont think that comment warrants a reply, apart from it just reinforces how big the chip is thats stuck on your shoulder.

I can only conclude fellow forum members that Mac Mac is unable to offer any advice on the marketing of PVCu cleans, and if he does manage to put together a reply I would be extremely sceptical as to its value.


Mark

[macmac]

As for the 1 hour PVC clean= quote 150, tells you to get lost, 60 & get the job.
So YOU would have lost 60 quid & NOT gained 90.
I, on the other hand would have gained 60 quid

What about that side of the coin?
Hows that song go? "so why you wanna go & put stars in their eyes"

Tony

Now Mac Mac...I'll put you straight, the way I work I would have had a chance at £190 at £150 at £100 and £80, all before I settled on £60( If I had to). And thats why you aint the sharpest tool in the box.

But good luck anyway. Still waiting for your expert advice on Marketing PVCu cleans. See youve got me giving you snippets of what to do now....you are a crafty fella aint ya.


Mark

190 down to 60 : That's a realy good way of selling your expert service. What must the customer think when they realise you were standing there trying to rip them off good & proper? ALARM BELLS START RINGING! something not right here, that's less than a third of what you just quoted 2 mins ago are you dodgy, insured, con-man- well you are a con man, you just tried to take me for 130 quid for a service your now admitting is only worth 60 quid now off you go I'll get the regular guy (who i trust) to do it.

I'll repeat myself just for you davo :
Theory is for people who have too much time on their hands & no common sense. It also shows in this case you have no knowlage of 99% of w/c'ers customers.

You've been to to many seminars lad.

Tony

Mac Mac..your post really does show your naivety about how the sales process works. You are like many amateur sales people I meet, they think they have the gift of the gab, can sell sand to the arabs etc.

There are things that can be said to customers which enable you to drop your price without losing any credability. But for me to explain them to yourself would be a total waste of time, you havent grasped the basics yet. Unfortuantely with your own perception of yourself you have nothing to learn. I am fortunate I learn something every day.

Oh and although I sell products to members of the public for a few thousand pounds a time, the same principles work on a £1000 sale as they do on a £10 sale.

You seem to think that the rules that apply to sales and marketing somehow dont apply to people who have their windows cleaned. Are you aware of how absurd that is?

As for the "you've been to too many seminars laddy" I dont think that comment warrants a reply, apart from it just reinforces how big the chip is thats stuck on your shoulder.

I can only conclude fellow forum members that Mac Mac is unable to offer any advice on the marketing of PVCu cleans, and if he does manage to put together a reply I would be extremely sceptical as to its value.


Mark

Retail sales manager

Painter and decorator

Door Sales British Gas

Manager of window replacement company

Sales manager

These were your previous jobs (you listed them). You were obviousley so successful at these that now in your 40's you've decided to go window cleaning. You must have just got bored?

You've been window cleaning for how long?

I however, offer advise on things that i know about & have experience in & what is relative & realistic to the majority of my fellow w/c'ers. I only need to look at your back posts to see who the naive one is
You'll learn son, keep up the entertainment.

You could try the kirby vacume cleaner career

Tony

[macmac]

Just had another idea-
I'll start off at 190 & then blind them with w/c science. tell them that for every tenner i drop the TDS goes up. So by the time i get down to 60 i can just plug straight into their outside tap & throw a bit of dust in for good measure.
Am i good or what?

mac "Thinking outside the box" mac

[Davo]

Mac Mac why change the subject. Instead of trying to discredit me with how many jobs ive had in the last 30 years answer one simple question.


Can you or can you not , with your many many years of valuable experience as a window cleaner explain a simple marketing stratedgy for PVCu cleans?

One where you can drop the price without losing credability, oh and the TDS nonsense of your last post  just demonstrates how upset you seem to get when you dont get your own way.

A very simple yes or no will suffice.


Mark

[macmac]

Yes

[windowwashers]

Davo let me know please and put macmac out of pain. 

[Davo]

Yes

Thankyou for the straight answer, now my next question is , would you share it with the rest of the forum?

Again a yes or no will do.



Mark