[bluez]

Just because we are all window cleaners does not mean that we will or should all follow the same methods or doing the job or of marketing the job.

I am personally on the flashy side of the devide, but I envy the w/c who can make their living without the major investment that I have made.

I have made the investment in vehicles and equipment and image in order to achieve a decent market share in my area(based on I disagreeesment of how I could achieve that), I also believe that it is essential to look pro if you are trying to get the larger commercial work, but that is just my opinion. Fair play to all w/c who can do it on the lower budget end they will probably earn more for their labours than I can for my labours alone but my 12 staff and 8 vans (not there yet) will be worth a lot more when I go to sell it.

This topic would only be relevent if all our goals were the same. It's like comparing apples and oranges they are both fruit but taste different.

[Village Gleam]

I'd much sooner be argueing with bluez or davo or tenet clean on the next big thing (cleaning solar panels)whether i'm going to make a fortune, and how I should be approaching the marketing of this, than explaining the basics of how business is supposed to work to people.

[bluez]

Mr. Sol ....cleaning solar panels ..... go on, you have me interested.

[frames to panes]

I've thought about that and offered to clean some but a) they are very few and far between in my area and b) the ones i did find wern't bothered anyway. :
Again, interesting answers on the marketing subject don't forget it was the domestic market i was talking about. I do find it interesting how some members see themselves as superior to others and would like to know the customers views - which would prove difficult. I always struggle with Mr Solubilities view that i would want a holiday because it had the nicest brochure or a Pizza because the picture looked colourful. But i could be odd i don't know. I tend to go for value for money combined with reputation for most of my requirements. I wouldn't go to the flashiest restaurant and certainly wouldn't go for the most expensive (i want good food at a reasonable price) but we're all different.

[Ian Lancaster]

My experience is that there are plenty of £6 - £8 per 3 bed semi window cleaners, and if they work hard they can make a more than reasonable income.

I don't try to compete with them, I offer my customers what I believe is a superior service, and I charge a superior price.  There are 4 of us (so far) in my business, all with sign written vans and all uniformed.

Many times I hear "Oh yes, I've seen your vans about".  It gives prospective customers a sense of  security, that they're dealing with a professional organisation who won't turn them over, and who they know they can always contact in the unlikely event of a problem (unlike the "John's" "Bert's" etc whose only contact is a mobile number).

This allows me to sell my service properly, detailing all the advantages we offer, and results in over 95% success in converting leads, at the price I ask.

"The Proof of the Pudding........."

[Village Gleam]

djw,
you would want a pizza delivered because the leaflet came through your door, Stop putting words into my mouth.
Funnily enough when I first researched leaflets one stood as being head and shoulders better than all the others. So much so that I got in touch with the chap.

He told me that once his wife had followed someone leaflet dropping around an estate. Whe she had nearly finished she saw one of the leaflerts ans saw that it was a window cleaning one. She thought she had wasted her time.

In fact he got quite a few phone calls and more than one made the comment that they phoned him because his leaflet was clearer.

[frames to panes]

Did i say that? sorry, fair enough i'm not looking to argue (this time  ). It's a subject that i genuinely wanted to hear both sides.

[macmac]

I think Mr.Sol' must have been a car salesman in a previous life

A car salesman once told me to think about my image when i was going to buy a new car, i told him not to insult my intelligence & left him in no doubt that because of this comment i would never buy a car from him ( plus a few other choice words ).

Tony

[windowwashers]

I think Mr.Sol' must have been a car salesman in a previous life

A car salesman once told me to think about my image when i was going to buy a new car, i told him not to insult my intelligence & left him in no doubt that because of this comment i would never buy a car from him ( plus a few other choice words ).

Tony

Mr S is a market trader  but also clued up on the marketing side IMO

[macmac]

I think Mr.Sol' must have been a car salesman in a previous life

A car salesman once told me to think about my image when i was going to buy a new car, i told him not to insult my intelligence & left him in no doubt that because of this comment i would never buy a car from him ( plus a few other choice words ).

Tony

Mr S is a market trader  but also clued up on the marketing side IMO

So clued up he has to have two jobs?

tony

[windowwashers]

I think Mr.Sol' must have been a car salesman in a previous life

A car salesman once told me to think about my image when i was going to buy a new car, i told him not to insult my intelligence & left him in no doubt that because of this comment i would never buy a car from him ( plus a few other choice words ).

Tony

Mr S is a market trader  but also clued up on the marketing side IMO

So clued up he has to have two jobs?

tony

or chooses too 

[twt]

When i bought my house i was chatting to the solicitor and he asked me what i did for a living and when i told him he said "you must be a wealthy man because window cleaner make a good living." This comment stood out for two reasons

First a solicitor was telling me i must have a good income with no irony implied.

Second this sort of comment is very rare as most people see window cleaning as a low paid job.

   Out of my customers i could pick some who if i had the brand new van and ultra pro image would grumble that i was earning too much money. also i can think of some who would be please for me because i was visibly doing well.
  
How does image affect earning?
well for established customers who know you provide a good service are reliable and honest probably not a great deal.
    For new customers it will help shape their view of you and your business ie thats a nice van he must be successfull and therefore good at what he does.
The main thing is you have a proffessional image you must live up to it because a great deal of custom on domestics will be gained through word of mouth.

Also how we see ourselfs and how our customers see us may be entirely different personlly i like my customers to see me as hard honest hard working and friendly etc... as it draws attention to me and my work rather than the price of the job and how long or quickly it is done.

p.s british folks hate success and are easily jealous of what other people have.

pps this post is a lot of waffle as it is quite a diifficult subject to put into words.

[xxmattyxx]

I think Mr.Sol' must have been a car salesman in a previous life

A car salesman once told me to think about my image when i was going to buy a new car, i told him not to insult my intelligence & left him in no doubt that because of this comment i would never buy a car from him ( plus a few other choice words ).

Tony

Mr S is a market trader  but also clued up on the marketing side IMO

So clued up he has to have two jobs?

tony

2?

[Davo]

Yes I felt depressed, not so much because they disagreed with me but because their replies were so dull.

If you believe them they never use or are swayed by the glossy chinese and pizza menus that come through the door.Never waste money on package holidays with fancy brochures ,websites, and uniformed staff.Would never dream of using a molly maid or a jims mowing over someone less presentable.

The only valid point they could have made(and they didn't) was that if you have an existing customer of long standing none of this makes any difference to him whatsover.That I can agree with, but by marketing people usually mean growth.

I get the feeling of a 'them and us' attitude from your post. Which to me doesnt sit well.

As for being tempted by glossy chinese and pizza menus through the door, nope, not yet.

Glossy holiday brochures, we found the last travel agent we use off teletext, have used them for the last 6 holidays (so that says enough about that, i.e. its damn good, no glossy brochure could change that).

Thats enough from me.

Matt

Matt EVERYBODY is effected by marketing, whether they like it not. From the food you buy, to the vehicle you drive to the restaurant you take your children to. The annoyance I think Mr Solubility talks about(IMO,  I cant speak for him) is that some people are too stubborn.OR too stupid to realise that, or maybe if they did concede to that particular fact it may detract  from the validity of their argument.



Mark

[xxmattyxx]

We wouldnt have jobs to go to if we didnt do some sort of marketing, I get that Dave, but I, IMO, see it a little more realistically about who we are and what service we provide. We clean windows, end of story.

Theres far too many variables and value in the motoring or food market to start thinking your marketing needs to be on a par with them.

As an example I went to price up a job today, I knocked on their door, smart/signed t-shirt, shaved, smiled, shook the guys hand, introduced myself and gave him my card; it has a mobile and landline number on it as well as the fact that I also offer gutter cleaning/fascia cleaning and have Public Liability Insurance. I asked him if it was ok to look around, I gave him the price, told him how frequently I would visit, explained about payment if theyre not in, explained how the job would be done, how Id leave the place (sills/frames wiped off).

He was contented, what more could I have done, he only rang me as he wants his windows cleaned.

I could have given him an 8 page glossy mag with pictures of shiny ladders and sparkling windows in it, with gleaming plastic fascias and snapshots of happy smiling satisfied Mrs Average, why?

Matt

[Davo]

Matt I appreciate your point of view, however, the "Im only a window cleaner" mind set can affect the work you take on and the prices that you can achieve ON CERTAIN JOBS.

Granted most people wont pay large sums of money to have their windows cleaned, no matter how nice the van the logo the leaflet you put through their door. BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT THEIR WINDOWS CLEANED.

However there are certain jobs, such as conservatory cleans, soffits facias etc, that present an oportunity to earn a higher rate ( its not cleaning windows, its a different service so the customer doesnt really know how much they should be paying for that type of work)
Now as "only the window cleaner" you may think ok soffits, gutters facias (PVCu Clean) cleaning, 1 hrs worth of work Ill charge her £60 ( good hourly rate for "only a window cleaner")

BUT the same 1 hour PVCu clean could be worth £150  IF YOU MARKET YOURSELF PROPERLY.


Now I would have thought an extra £90 for an hours work is worth opening your eyes and ears for. Saying that "Im not a window cleaner" Im only a  sales man.



Mark

[bluez]

Only people who want to increase their work level price, or work quality bother to market. Why are we trying to convince w/c who have enough work to market. They have enough, no amount of common business sense from DAVO will convince the sceptic. 

[richyp]

davo, i am a window cleaner with waterfed pole etc and was thinking of going into the upvc cleaning business. which is the best way to market it in your opinion?

[macmac]

Matt I appreciate your point of view, however, the "Im only a window cleaner" mind set can affect the work you take on and the prices that you can achieve ON CERTAIN JOBS.

Granted most people wont pay large sums of money to have their windows cleaned, no matter how nice the van the logo the leaflet you put through their door. BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT THEIR WINDOWS CLEANED.

However there are certain jobs, such as conservatory cleans, soffits facias etc, that present an oportunity to earn a higher rate ( its not cleaning windows, its a different service so the customer doesnt really know how much they should be paying for that type of work)
Now as "only the window cleaner" you may think ok soffits, gutters facias (PVCu Clean) cleaning, 1 hrs worth of work Ill charge her £60 ( good hourly rate for "only a window cleaner")

BUT the same 1 hour PVCu clean could be worth £150  IF YOU MARKET YOURSELF PROPERLY.


Now I would have thought an extra £90 for an hours work is worth opening your eyes and ears for. Saying that "Im not a window cleaner" Im only a  sales man.



Mark

Davo
Most w/c'ers already know all this, we're not thick. do you honestly think your oppinions are something new, enlightening? they're not mate. It's basic business skills or - common sense.
Most w/c'ers know how to get the best money per situation & know of the other services they could provide should they wish or be arsed to do so.
There are many definitions to the word "success"

Tony

[Davo]

Matt I appreciate your point of view, however, the "Im only a window cleaner" mind set can affect the work you take on and the prices that you can achieve ON CERTAIN JOBS.

Granted most people wont pay large sums of money to have their windows cleaned, no matter how nice the van the logo the leaflet you put through their door. BECAUSE THEY ONLY WANT THEIR WINDOWS CLEANED.

However there are certain jobs, such as conservatory cleans, soffits facias etc, that present an oportunity to earn a higher rate ( its not cleaning windows, its a different service so the customer doesnt really know how much they should be paying for that type of work)
Now as "only the window cleaner" you may think ok soffits, gutters facias (PVCu Clean) cleaning, 1 hrs worth of work Ill charge her £60 ( good hourly rate for "only a window cleaner")

BUT the same 1 hour PVCu clean could be worth £150  IF YOU MARKET YOURSELF PROPERLY.


Now I would have thought an extra £90 for an hours work is worth opening your eyes and ears for. Saying that "Im not a window cleaner" Im only a  sales man.



Mark

Davo
Most w/c'ers already know all this, we're not thick. do you honestly think your oppinions are something new, enlightening? they're not mate. It's basic business skills or - common sense.
Most w/c'ers know how to get the best money per situation & know of the other services they could provide should they wish or be arsed to do so.
There are many definitions to the word "success"

Tony

OK then mac mac then why do so many posters on this forum shout down anyone who obtains good rates for their work? A recent poster re conservatory cleans was given the " oh another dreamer" type reception. If all the members of this forum already "know" all this "basic" business stuff then why do posters still post questions regarding aspects of marketing?

Obviously someone such as yourself who already knows  should put fingers to keyboard and help them out a little.

I look forward to your detailed post on marketing PVCu cleans, as Im sure will others on this forum. 


Oh and a quick paragraph on "price conditioning " would be good too.



Mark