[macmac]

What is for sure is that this game has many variables & what may work for one doesn't for the other.
One gripe that i have with some posts that spring up on this forum is that with this constant drive to have the best, most expensive, hot water, 20k van etc. is that the basics of business are overlooked. At the end of the day, we are nothing without loyal customers, no flashyness is going to provide these for us. Many people will have you believe if you spend 20k on a flash system & top notch van that customers will come begging you to come clean their windows (not true), you'll be over-run with work etc.etc (yawn)
Pure water is very, very easy & cheap to produce, no wfp system in the world is rocket science. Some w/c'res even think a window is sterile when cleaned with wfp  :(customers must be p***ing themselves laughing after listening to such rubbish).
You sell your self & your service, this can be done on a 1k budget or a 20k budget but the latter will take far more to recover & could have you bust before you even start!
WE ARE WINDOW CLEANERS, NOT BESPOKE FURNITURE MAKERS!

Tony

[xxmattyxx]

I can't help but like your attitude Tony.

 

[Village Gleam]

We are also in business. And to think that the rules of business don't apply to us, such as investing in better equipment, and following a business plan that includes proper marketing just seems odd to me.

Most of the posters on this have spoken about thmves. This is an abstract not personal concept. Is proper marketing better or not?

I think it is.

[macmac]

I can't help but like your attitude Tony.

 

For me, it's about keeping it realistic, for the majority of circumstances. there's nothing wrong with ambition & higher goals, but two important things stand here.
1. Why do people assume every w/c'er wants such a hectic, high stress lifestyle & not just earn a very good living doing exactly what he is doing now?
2. One must be able to walk before he can run.

Tony

[Village Gleam]

You saw the post that got deleted?

[macmac]

You saw the post that got deleted?

What post?

tony

[Blackbushe Windows]

Important to keep up-to-date, but not to get swept along with the tide.


We  have all adopted our own way of working and if it works for you, that's great.


Peter

[macmac]

Important to keep up-to-date, but not to get swept along with the tide.


We  have all adopted our own way of working and if it works for you, that's great.


Peter

wise words

tony

[frames to panes]

Mac mac, i find myself being drawn to your posts - i think we must be alike  eek!

[Village Gleam]

It was taken down but it asked about the high reach H2O.

The basics of making money in business are well known. Find a way of adding value to a product or service, and then tell people about it.

The theory is that a bagless vacuum or a hot wfp system adds more percieved value. A professional clearly laid out glossy  leaflet including photographs of you and your work stating your unique selling propositon (after you have figured out what that is, it might be that you do the windows by hand the traditional way) has to be a good way to tell people about it.

[macmac]

Mac mac, i find myself being drawn to your posts - i think we must be alike  eek!

If you're small, fat, bald, ugly, have no mates & even your dog hates you then there is a chance we could have been seperated at birth!

tony

[Village Gleam]

Okay, perhaps the photo doesn't work for everyone.

[xxmattyxx]

Surely all people want is for their windows to be clean, whether its been done by by 3 dwarfs with green spots on the fore-heads or by the local regular guy that comes round, does your neighbours, seems like a nice enough chap (looks presentable, polite, doesnt look too shifty and is just trying to make a ends meet like the rest of the population).

If I spoke to a window-cleaner and he presented me with a glossy colour brochure of him and his system, with the latest state of the art piece of precision engineering hot-water-system that left my windows sterilised with ultra-pure reverse osmosis H20 Id feel the need to ask him if he was going to clean my windows or make love to them.

This aint rocket science, at the end of the day we're cleaners, those who wish to try to portray themselves as something else, fine, but your custys will still only know you as a cleaner.

WFP is a tool, a tool for doing the job (for our benefit as operators) IMO thats all it is, for the average custy all theyre interested in is will it clean them? They dont give a hoot if theyve been cleaned by something that their window cleaner says is the best thing since sliced bread with the latest gadgetry or thingamijig that progress has enabled us to harness for our convenience, all they want is to come home and for those clear square pieces of silicone-sand between their living space and the outside world to be clean.

Thats ALL theyre paying for.


Matt

[windowwashers]

Surely all people want is for their windows to be clean, whether its been done by by 3 dwarfs with green spots on the fore-heads or by the local regular guy that comes round, does your neighbours, seems like a nice enough chap (looks presentable, polite, doesnt look too shifty and is just trying to make a ends meet like the rest of the population).

If I spoke to a window-cleaner and he presented me with a glossy colour brochure of him and his system, with the latest state of the art piece of precision engineering hot-water-system that left my windows sterilised with ultra-pure reverse osmosis H20 Id feel the need to ask him if he was going to clean my windows or make love to them.

This aint rocket science, at the end of the day we're cleaners, those who wish to try to portray themselves as something else, fine, but your custys will still only know you as a cleaner.

WFP is a tool, a tool for doing the job (for our benefit as operators) IMO thats all it is, for the average custy all theyre interested in is will it clean them? They dont give a hoot if theyve been cleaned by something that their window cleaner says is the best thing since sliced bread with the latest gadgetry or thingamijig that progress has enabled us to harness for our convenience, all they want is to come home and for those clear square pieces of silicone-sand between their living space and the outside world to be clean.

Thats ALL theyre paying for.


Matt

in a way you are right,

times change,  in years to come people will say oh dear dont want them cleaned that way (trad) we want this this and that, which some windwo cleaners now offer you have to remember trad has been around for years as was beta max (they said same thing to VHS as did they say about the dvd and cd.

thing to remember is times do change as do peoples thoughts to it.

[Davo]

WFP is a tool, a tool for doing the job (for our benefit as operators) IMO thats all it is, for the average custy all theyre interested in is will it clean them? They dont give a hoot if theyve been cleaned by something that their window cleaner says is the best thing since sliced bread with the latest gadgetry or thingamijig that progress has enabled us to harness for our convenience, all they want is to come home and for those clear square pieces of silicone-sand between their living space and the outside world to be clean.

Thats ALL theyre paying for.


Matt

So you only clean windows and nothing else??


Mark

[TennetClean]

Surely all people want is for their windows to be clean

Totally wrong in my experience.  If that was true, then customers would choose solely on price alone, and they clearly do not (which is good because I'd be out of business if they did)

If you say you're a window cleaner, they expect you to clean the windows, thats taken for granted.  What they are prepared to pay for, however, is the polish of the professional.

That could be something simple like wearing shoe covers if you go inside the house or a uniform or wearing a photo ID badge with info they can check up if need be.

Or it can be (esp when going for contracts) making sure they understand that you've invested heabily in the proper equipment and are not a bodge-it man.

The window cleaners I know that have bodged together systems dont manage to get anywhere like the prices I can get, because they dont act professional.

Do they clean the windows as well as me?  Of course they do!  a clean window is a clean window!  Customers arent paying my extra for that, they are paying more for me being a pro with a pro attitude.

Some people will never get their head around this and just dont see the value of investing in your image.  Thats great, I'm glad about it because it makes me stand out above them.  A pro attitude cant be learned or taught, you've either got it or you havent.  And IMO if you think "I'm not paying to have my van properly done, bcos its only window cleaning" then you dont have it and never will.  Bad luck for you.

Mike

[windowwashers]

Surely all people want is for their windows to be clean

Totally wrong in my experience.  If that was true, then customers would choose solely on price alone, and they clearly do not (which is good because I'd be out of business if they did)

If you say you're a window cleaner, they expect you to clean the windows, thats taken for granted.  What they are prepared to pay for, however, is the polish of the professional.

That could be something simple like wearing shoe covers if you go inside the house or a uniform or wearing a photo ID badge with info they can check up if need be.

Or it can be (esp when going for contracts) making sure they understand that you've invested heabily in the proper equipment and are not a bodge-it man.

The window cleaners I know that have bodged together systems dont manage to get anywhere like the prices I can get, because they dont act professional.

Do they clean the windows as well as me?  Of course they do!  a clean window is a clean window!  Customers arent paying my extra for that, they are paying more for me being a pro with a pro attitude.

Some people will never get their head around this and just dont see the value of investing in your image.  Thats great, I'm glad about it because it makes me stand out above them.  A pro attitude cant be learned or taught, you've either got it or you havent.  And IMO if you think "I'm not paying to have my van properly done, bcos its only window cleaning" then you dont have it and never will.  Bad luck for you.

Mike

refreshing to read that post mike ty  , gets me down a little listening to others putting others down all the time for trying to be  professional.

[Village Gleam]

Yes I felt depressed, not so much because they disagreed with me but because their replies were so dull.

If you believe them they never use or are swayed by the glossy chinese and pizza menus that come through the door.Never waste money on package holidays with fancy brochures ,websites, and uniformed staff.Would never dream of using a molly maid or a jims mowing over someone less presentable.

The only valid point they could have made(and they didn't) was that if you have an existing customer of long standing none of this makes any difference to him whatsover.That I can agree with, but by marketing people usually mean growth.

[Davo]

There will always be differing views - its a forum, however, the idea of the forum is to share information and experience with each other. Take what you think you can use and discard the rest.

New people enter a business, and sometimes they bring with them new ideas, or sometimes ideas from other types of business. I personally feel that certain members resent some of this information , or viewpoint based soley on their percieved status of the poster.

I personally tend to post on topics I know something about, the techno stuff I dont believe I can offer any meaningful or constructive advice about, there are others better qualified on here to comment on such topics.

There will be members of this forum who earn more money from this profession with maybe only a couple of years experience, than some who have been "shining" for 20 years or more. What does that tell  you?

As to cost against professionalism. Where does £20 k come from? You can set the job up properley for whatever your budget will allow. And there are many posts which offer you ways of achieving that without spending too much money.


Maybe the "old guard" should open their eyes to differing viewpoints, they may just learn something.



Mark 

[xxmattyxx]

Yes I felt depressed, not so much because they disagreed with me but because their replies were so dull.

If you believe them they never use or are swayed by the glossy chinese and pizza menus that come through the door.Never waste money on package holidays with fancy brochures ,websites, and uniformed staff.Would never dream of using a molly maid or a jims mowing over someone less presentable.

The only valid point they could have made(and they didn't) was that if you have an existing customer of long standing none of this makes any difference to him whatsover.That I can agree with, but by marketing people usually mean growth.

I get the feeling of a 'them and us' attitude from your post. Which to me doesnt sit well.

As for being tempted by glossy chinese and pizza menus through the door, nope, not yet.

Glossy holiday brochures, we found the last travel agent we use off teletext, have used them for the last 6 holidays (so that says enough about that, i.e. its damn good, no glossy brochure could change that).

Thats enough from me.

Matt