[windowwashers]

I think this has been a good thread, a few different approaches to gaining & keeping work. It's often beneficial IMO to thrash out (so to speak) a few oppinions, then most people will be able to relate to one or the other. We could spend all day picking each others approaches apart but for me the main points are made.

Who's right between me & davo?  both of us

For davo with a background in sales & equiped with flawless sales patter with the ability for it to just roll off his tongue, then i dare to say he would be quite convincing to the customer.

As for others, this could be a dangerous strategy. Get the patter wrong & it could well spell disaster leaving you with a red face & a ringing in your ear.

Sometimes it's a mix of marketing techniques, for me the davo style is more for one off jobs or less frequent/larger work & the macmac style for regular work, the work you need to rely on month in month out where customer loyalty & relations is paramount & will, on it's own create more work.

Think we've all put some good points across, IMO marketing (if you want to call it that) in this job is quite different to other trades/products for many reasons & that has to be born in mind when trying to make a living at this game.

Me & Davo obviousley don't see eye to eye on marketing 100%, However i have still taken elements of his posts that i may well use in the future, so, at least i have some benefit from this thread, which is what these little (soap operas ) are good for.

Respect

Tony

Good on you Tony for putting up this post, everyone is different and everyone can learn something of others a foolish person says I know every, a wise one will learn

[twt]

davo what is the process you go through to clean the conservatory roof im not asking for names of products but what you actually do when cleaning.

 When i clean a conservatory roof i just use wfp and elbow grease on roofs which aren't too bad. On really dirty roofs i wet the roof with wfp then turn water down and appy detergent to the brush and scrub the whole roofwith detergent let it soak in then rinse with wfp and leave to dry naturally. ON pvc cleans i get the ladders out and wipe them clean with a wet scimamd the polish up with a dry scrim.

Im trying to understand what you do as from your comments about products i think you may do more than i do. I guess when you get a top price you apply your final polish and this needs to be done by hand rather than with a pole and requires a conservatory roof ladder and takes time to do which would justify a premium price.

I think arguements about price on this thread may be caused by some people talking about pvcu cleaning and you talking about cleaning and restoration which would result in a large price difference.

Ive had this conversation with a bloke in my area before who charges 120+ to clean facias with a water fed pole and it takes him a couple of hours and i don't believe his customers get value for money. I once was asked to quote for a facia clean and i gave them my price which i was unaware was less than half of his price did the job it took an hour and i made more than my usual hourly rate. He would have taken alot longer to do it but the end result would be no different to mine and would have cost the customer alot more. However if he was restoring and protecting the pvcu i would say it was good value but he wasn't.

so davo are you talking about pvcu restoration or cleaning?

[Davo]

......... a bloke in my area before who charges 120+ to clean facias with a water fed pole and it takes him a couple of hours and i don't believe his customers get value for money.

The issue of value for money is very subjective, mainly because what represents value to one person may be too expensive or too cheap to another ( you can miss work because you are too cheap, they will percieve your service as somehow substandard). My initial thought on this competitor is that if he is doing 2 hours work for £120 and, when he's finished the job, it is to the standard as promised to the customer, then he's got it right.

In my opinion, on this type of work ( and for arguments sake say a window cleaner is earning £30 an hour) thinking in window cleaning rate terms is not the way to go,
 ie well I'm normally on £30 Ill do it for £40 - £80 for 2 hours work.

What you charge has to be related to what the customer recieves for their money. Adding value to what you do ( in this instance putting a protective finish on cleaned PVCu) is worth more as a job and ultimately your hourly rate, than simply getting it clean.

This also, in my opinion, applies to existing customers. Its not window cleaning its a premium service. But you have to deliver what you promise to deliver.

so davo are you talking about pvcu restoration or cleaning?

Both, although, without sounding too nit pickey, they are the same thing. The customer has an option. It depends what they can afford, what their expectations are ( And very importantly the state of the PVCu - if the PVCu has failed ( gone yellow or pink) then you can restore that back to white, but not by cleaning or applying polishes etc. It has to be recoated with specialist paints( time consuming and a pain in the neck)

davo what is the process you go through to clean the conservatory roof im not asking for names of products but what you actually do when cleaning.

 

Traffic film remover as a presoaker, waterfed pole, Specialist Cleaner Paste for spot cleaning stubborn spots. Specialist Cleaning Solvent for really stubborn marks. Its then as clean as you are gonna get it.


Mark

[Village Gleam]

You probably know about the paint(I don't). But restoring the colour is easy, chemical £7 a tin plus elbow grease.
Most times you can spend time doing it and the custie doesn't even acknowledge you've done it. I can't remember what it was like? Yellow, a bit maybe..
So I tend not to waste my time.

I carry all the chemicals because my focus is on speed, and sometimes you get the new windows with adhesive on etc.

I don't like talking to the customers for too long either.I think you're ahead on points here Davo so I would quit this while you're ahead.

There is a lot I can't say but if you need any help with a basic plan i'm always willing to put my two pence in.

[Davo]

You probably know about the paint(I don't). But restoring the colour is easy, chemical £7 a tin plus elbow grease.
Most times you can spend time doing it and the custie doesn't even acknowledge you've done it. I can't remember what it was like? Yellow, a bit maybe..
So I tend not to waste my time.

I carry all the chemicals because my focus is on speed, and sometimes you get the new windows with adhesive on etc.

I don't like talking to the customers for too long either.I think you're ahead on points here Davo so I would quit this while you're ahead.

There is a lot I can't say but if you need any help with a basic plan i'm always willing to put my two pence in.

Im not trying to win anything, just offering a different perspective.

PVCu cleaning is at a very early stage. Window cleaners have a huge advantage over other companies or individuals who offer this service..

They have a customer base, they have cash flow and they have most of the equipment, well the equipment which costs the money.


But thankyou for the offer of help. ooooo now hot PVCu cleaning, theres a thought....


Mark

[Village Gleam]

Okay. I'll pester ww then.

[windowwashers]

Okay. I'll pester ww then.

go for it I like a challenge 

[jonah]

customers just like to see there investment £s looking like they did when they swallowed hard when the double glazing company .....using the term loosely here billed em for 1000,s . If you promise they are sealed and gonna reflect 99.9 % of uv rays and going to save the planet then you have cornered a niche market !

[Davo]

If you've got a clue what i'm rambling on about Davo say so.

Yes Mr Sol. However to infer that they would be a part of a nationally recognise brand would, IMO, be missleading. That is unless you have the resources to spend ie the  £100.000's needed to achieve that claim. Somone giving you £500 for the priveledge of using a brand name etc, wouldnt get you very far in any national marketing campaign. The major benefit that I can see, are the obvious economies of scale. The ability to target national contracts ( provided you  have a national network). But I believe for every £500 member you recruited you would buy in £10,000 worth of aggravation.




Mark

[Village Gleam]

Fair enough. I took it down because of ww's non responce.

[windowwashers]

Fair enough. I took it down because of ww's non responce.

put it back up was away back now 

[frames to panes]

http://www.fargil.co.uk/index.html

There you go Davo, it's already out there- better get your skates on!

[Davo]

http://www.fargil.co.uk/index.html

There you go Davo, it's already out there- better get your skates on!

Theyve been going a while DJW. This  concept of applying a protective coating has been arround a while. Its finding something which is easy to apply, which I have found difficult to source.

But thanks for the link ( unless it was intended to show that Im not as smart as I think i am) in which case, Ill give you links to other companies if you like which offer  a similar service.



Mark

[frames to panes]

Not intended to show anything in particular, just found it whilst googling for a cleaner for conservatory roofs (tfr or something) and thought of your posts. I've posted my views somewhwere and have lost interest in the thread really, so nothing to squabble about.

[Village Gleam]

I found it of interest. It's a higher level than I want to offer. I would look at car products for the wax/silicone.

Doing insides I feel i lose the system advantage.

[frames to panes]

Mind you i'm not sure i'd let a blind valet into my house 

[Davo]

Not intended to show anything in particular, just found it whilst googling for a cleaner for conservatory roofs (tfr or something) and thought of your posts. I've posted my views somewhwere and have lost interest in the thread really, so nothing to squabble about.

Thanx for the link DJW.




Mark

[Village Gleam]

one of the wc basics is the concept of repeat biz- and also probably- that we are local to an area.

[elite mike]

Mind you i'm not sure i'd let a blind valet into my house 

is this discrimination  LOL     
great thead by the way
mike

[frames to panes]

If there is one on here that i've missed (can't be sure) then i apologise now.