[bluez]

I value my business based on a yearly turnover and profit level rather than a weekly or monthly one. At least 1 years turnover plus equipment and vehicles.

The sooner window cleaners bigin to consider their businesses as a 52 week period the sooner we will see values go up. I have never seen any other business sold based on a monthly turnover. Imo round builders and canvassers have lowered the expectations of window cleaners.

The value of a round owned and operated by a genuine window cleaner for a number of years is in no way comparable to a round canvassed for selling.

[paul saunders]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K.  : :

[Nathanael Jones]

I value my business based on a yearly turnover and profit level rather than a weekly or monthly one. At least 1 years turnover plus equipment and vehicles.

The sooner window cleaners bigin to consider their businesses as a 52 week period the sooner we will see values go up. I have never seen any other business sold based on a monthly turnover. Imo round builders and canvassers have lowered the expectations of window cleaners.

The value of a round owned and operated by a genuine window cleaner for a number of years is in no way comparable to a round canvassed for selling.

I agree,... BUT as long as there are round developer companies out there doing it for 2x,.. is any cleaner seriously going to spend 8x or even 10x for this added "quality"??
I value the benefits of an established round and loyal customers,.... but if I was buying work tomorrow, and virgin custies were a quarter of the price, I know what I'd choose! I'd expect to loose a few, but the vast majority would eventually join the ranks of my "quality" custies,.. and it'd be worth the time and effort of getting them there.

[bluez]

I take your point Nathanael but you are looking at it from a buyers perspective I think( it would be hard to pay 8x 10x if you were buying), would your opinion be the same if you were thinking of selling?

[simon knight]

I value my business based on a yearly turnover and profit level rather than a weekly or monthly one. At least 1 years turnover plus equipment and vehicles.

The sooner window cleaners bigin to consider their businesses as a 52 week period the sooner we will see values go up. I have never seen any other business sold based on a monthly turnover. Imo round builders and canvassers have lowered the expectations of window cleaners.

The value of a round owned and operated by a genuine window cleaner for a number of years is in no way comparable to a round canvassed for selling.

I agree with this. But Ronnie Paton made the comparison to shops, printers and cafes. With these the customer is buying the service, whereas with w/c it's 50% the service and 50% the person delivering the service IMO.

If you've an established round that's been built up over a number of years you'll have a raport with your customers that the buyer just isn't going to have. And for any shakey customers this will be their chance to move the goalposts...eg: bi-monthly not 6 weekly.

I seriously believe that the buyer will earn substantially less per month than the seller did.

[Roy Harding]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K.  : :

If you offered me 40k for my round I would not think twice, you would have to double it. Then we would talk.

But around is only worth what someone will pay.

40k may seem a lot of monney but you have not seen the accounts, you might buy the round for 40k and still make 40k proffit in the first year.

Roy

[simon knight]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K.  : :

If you offered me 40k for my round I would not think twice, you would have to double it. Then we would talk.

But around is only worth what someone will pay.

40k may seem a lot of monney but you have not seen the accounts, you might buy the round for 40k and still make 40k proffit in the first year.

Roy

Yes but i don't think Richard Branson is ready to go into window cleaning just yet.

Have you ever thought of going public and selling shares in your empire?

[Roy Harding]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K. : :

If you offered me 40k for my round I would not think twice, you would have to double it. Then we would talk.

But around is only worth what someone will pay.

40k may seem a lot of monney but you have not seen the accounts, you might buy the round for 40k and still make 40k proffit in the first year.

Roy

Yes but i don't think Richard Branson is ready to go into window cleaning just yet.

Have you ever thought of going public and selling shares in your empire?

Who said I had an empire?

And I think some are undrevaluing there bussines, say you had bought a round for 40k and still made a profit of 40k in first year. And then second year made 80k without expanding the round. You dont have to be Richard Branson to see a good investment. :

Roy

[simon knight]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K. : :

If you offered me 40k for my round I would not think twice, you would have to double it. Then we would talk.

But around is only worth what someone will pay.

40k may seem a lot of monney but you have not seen the accounts, you might buy the round for 40k and still make 40k proffit in the first year.

Roy

Yes but i don't think Richard Branson is ready to go into window cleaning just yet.

Have you ever thought of going public and selling shares in your empire?

Who said I had an empire?

And I think some are undrevaluing there bussines, say you had bought a round for 40k and still made a profit of 40k in first year. And then second year made 80k without expanding the round. You dont have to be Richard Branson to see a good investment. :

Roy

If ifs and ands
Were pots and pans
What would Tinkers do?

Anybody who has £80k to spend buying a round has ample money to last him while he builds up his own.

[Roy Harding]

I bow to your superior knowlage, as Trevor night once said "you learn something new every day.


Roy

[simon knight]

I bow to your superior knowlage, as Trevor night once said "you learn something new every day.


Roy

Not superior knowledge Mr Harding...just somebody who ain't got £800 let alone £80,000 and the way this poxy weather is going £80 might be hard to put my hands on soon....Woe is me

[poleman]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K.  : :

Thank you  : allways one  :

Andy

[NWH]

If i sold my round for 20k i`d be giving it away,all this about rounds being worth 2-3 times it`s monthly take is rubbish.If you worked a good round and i mean good for a couple of months with the current owner anyone with any business sense would see that paying this pittance of say 10-20k for an established business is ridiculous,if you`ve been in this job for some time then you know what it can earn you.

[twt]

when it comes to selling things its not how much the seller values it that counts but rather how much the buyer values it. Most people have no idea what profit a window cleaning round can generate and most people see window cleaning as a lowly job.

Also you have to ask yourself if someone had 40k to spend would they be the type of person attracted to window cleaning because i dont think many people view it as a business.

[dai]

I have always believed that good rounds are under valued, think of this way.
A bright kid gets good A level grades and goes off to UNI. Three years later, and 20 grand in debt he goes and looks for a job. If he's lucky, he finds a job that pays 25k to start, and then pays back his student loans.
Another bright lad pays 10k for a round, he already earns 75k whilst the other one is still in UNI, considerably more if he's a good business man and progressively improves his round.
I know what I would rather do. Dai

[Paul Coleman]

My own round is now over 25 years old, and it is currently a bloody good round with a terrific balance of very well paying (and I mean VERY well paying) commercial work and some superb residential accounts.
Even on a bad week, or series of weeks, the income it generates is very good indeed.

There is no way on earth I would sell this round for just three times it's monthly value!

If I sold my round for...say, £10,000, the buyer would be in profit inside 12 months.
The odds are they will be coming into window cleaning from a totally different sector, maybe buying the work with a redundancy payout, quite possibly their previous income would barely equal half the turnover that can be generated from the round.
So for nine or ten months they could be working at roughly the same income level they were as before.
And after such a tiny period of time they have paid for the round and are in profit...

How many other businesses could you buy for such a low price, and within a few months have an income considerably in excess of 30k? And with relatively low running costs too..

But I also value my customers, no way would I sell it to some berk who would ruin it inside of 6 months.
So I would also take them on for a month or more to train them and educate them in the round, and also to slowly introduce them to all my customers.
Every round, every account, they all have certain ways of cleaning them that are most efficient, for my buyer to benefit he would need to know exactly what he was doing, so vital he accompanies me for a few weeks, and that I'm also on hand to offer help whilst he gains his feet.

I'm not offering this level of help and support for a piddling three times it's monthly turnover!
And no way would I let it go for a paltry 10k either by the way!

Your round is worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it.

Some rounds I wouldn't give a tenner for, but a round such as Roy harding has...well, that one is worth it's weight in gold!

Ian

Yes ok for a round that's been established for 25 years with good, well paying accounts and somebody to hold my hand/make the introductions for the 1st month or so...then yes 3 times is ridiculous!

But for the vast majority of lesser rounds I still reckon 3 times is about right...because:

1) Books do get cooked
2) I reckon the buyer will lose 1/3 to 1/2 of the customers (because: " he's not my old window cleaner Ian")
3) It's almost as easy to build a round from scratch than buy a round and learn about the various customers funny little ways etc.

Sure thing Simon.  When I posted my earlier post, I wasn't just referring to a print out of the jobs and prices and letting someone get on with it.  Like Ian says, I just wouldn't allow that to happen.  Once someone got to know their way around my current round, they could have a decent income and have a fair bit of time off too if they wanted.  And like I said, it's an almost hassle free round.  I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's in the same league as Ian's or Roy's rounds, but with a couple or three more years of nurturing, it could be heading that way.  Quite a few of the customers have been with me 5+ years and some of them have been with me since my first couple of years (I started in 1991).  For my selling fee (not that I want to sell it) I would include an intro to all the customers who were in and a signed letter to all those who weren't.
Of course, as you say, a buyer wouldn't earn what I earn straight away as it takes a while to learn your way around work that is new to you - especially if not familiar with the areas.  It doesn't seem much now, but there is a lot of time saving in knowing the best places to park, the layout of a house before you get there etc etc.  But three or four times around should be enough to get the hang of that.
Of course a round is really only worth what someone is prepared to pay.  However a round that has been nurtured for years is far more precious than someone doing a few weeks canvassing, taking work with locked gates etc., cleaning them once or twice, then putting the worklist up for sale.  I would sell my round on "hassle free" rather than "sky high prices" but there are some very well priced blocks of work within it if someone is prepared to put in some effort.

[Paul Coleman]

So gentlemen those who are agreeing with me so far are we going to proceed with the raising the bar to say x8 or x10 on  quality domestic round.....think of it as its worth to you and also a nice lump sum to add on to your retirement fund......by the way still pi**ing it down here in w.yorks

The problem with raising the bar is that a buyer might not discover if he's buying a lovingly tended long term round or a worklist quickly thrown together until after it's been bought.

[windowwashers]

I value my business based on a yearly turnover and profit level rather than a weekly or monthly one. At least 1 years turnover plus equipment and vehicles.

The sooner window cleaners bigin to consider their businesses as a 52 week period the sooner we will see values go up. I have never seen any other business sold based on a monthly turnover. Imo round builders and canvassers have lowered the expectations of window cleaners.

The value of a round owned and operated by a genuine window cleaner for a number of years is in no way comparable to a round canvassed for selling.

thats very true

[Paul Coleman]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

IF !!! you ever do decide to sell, good luck getting your 40K. : :

If you offered me 40k for my round I would not think twice, you would have to double it. Then we would talk.

But around is only worth what someone will pay.

40k may seem a lot of monney but you have not seen the accounts, you might buy the round for 40k and still make 40k proffit in the first year.

Roy

Yes but i don't think Richard Branson is ready to go into window cleaning just yet.

Have you ever thought of going public and selling shares in your empire?

Who said I had an empire?

And I think some are undrevaluing there bussines, say you had bought a round for 40k and still made a profit of 40k in first year. And then second year made 80k without expanding the round. You dont have to be Richard Branson to see a good investment. :

Roy

I applaud your achievement Emperor Roy "Nero" Harding  
Just don't take up playing the fiddle.

[windowwashers]

taking up on past comments made on the board re valuation of rounds don't you think its about time we got together and reassess the valuation of our rounds making ourselves a few extra quid when we eventually sell thus reflecting the hard work put into building the round up.

For example someone with no experience at all can walk into window cleaning and in some cases buy a small round of say £250.00 per week for as little as £2,000.00  which to me is seriously low.....I'll start the revaluation programme and suggest a compact well paying round should have a valuation of between X8 to 10 of the monthly clean IE £2,ooo per month should be valued at between 16 to 20 grand.

This seems to me to be a fair price to ask  someone who then is able to earn a wage of £500 PW which in some cases they won't have to work all week for .....Anyone agree with me

I agree with you and you can buy all of my rounds if you want