[cvdewsbury]

taking up on past comments made on the board re valuation of rounds don't you think its about time we got together and reassess the valuation of our rounds making ourselves a few extra quid when we eventually sell thus reflecting the hard work put into building the round up.

For example someone with no experience at all can walk into window cleaning and in some cases buy a small round of say £250.00 per week for as little as £2,000.00  which to me is seriously low.....I'll start the revaluation programme and suggest a compact well paying round should have a valuation of between X8 to 10 of the monthly clean IE £2,ooo per month should be valued at between 16 to 20 grand.

This seems to me to be a fair price to ask  someone who then is able to earn a wage of £500 PW which in some cases they won't have to work all week for .....Anyone agree with me

[Alex Gardiner]

Majority of firms when converting to a limited company are considered to be worth about 3x their annual profit.

Thereby a round that has regularly brought in £25,000 p.a. would value the firm at £75,000 for tax purposes.

[birdymiller]

In my area rounds only go for 2 or 3 times what they are worth.

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Majority of firms when converting to a limited company are considered to be worth about 3x their annual profit.

Thereby a round that has regularly brought in £25,000 p.a. would value the firm at £75,000 for tax purposes.

General Companies are measured on PROFIT not turnover but window cleaning rounds are on book value.

When I went Ltd in 2003 I sold my round to D.Salkeld Ltd for 3 x the book value.  Fantastic tax saving in the first year Ltd

David

[simon knight]

taking up on past comments made on the board re valuation of rounds don't you think its about time we got together and reassess the valuation of our rounds making ourselves a few extra quid when we eventually sell thus reflecting the hard work put into building the round up.

For example someone with no experience at all can walk into window cleaning and in some cases buy a small round of say £250.00 per week for as little as £2,000.00  which to me is seriously low.....I'll start the revaluation programme and suggest a compact well paying round should have a valuation of between X8 to 10 of the monthly clean IE £2,ooo per month should be valued at between 16 to 20 grand.

This seems to me to be a fair price to ask  someone who then is able to earn a wage of £500 PW which in some cases they won't have to work all week for .....Anyone agree with me

When you buy a window cleaning round you're not buying plant, machinery, premises etc....all you're buying is "good will". And as there's no guarantee the customers will stay with you (and reading past threads it's hit and miss) I think 3 times is more than enough.

[Paul Coleman]

taking up on past comments made on the board re valuation of rounds don't you think its about time we got together and reassess the valuation of our rounds making ourselves a few extra quid when we eventually sell thus reflecting the hard work put into building the round up.

For example someone with no experience at all can walk into window cleaning and in some cases buy a small round of say £250.00 per week for as little as £2,000.00  which to me is seriously low.....I'll start the revaluation programme and suggest a compact well paying round should have a valuation of between X8 to 10 of the monthly clean IE £2,ooo per month should be valued at between 16 to 20 grand.

This seems to me to be a fair price to ask  someone who then is able to earn a wage of £500 PW which in some cases they won't have to work all week for .....Anyone agree with me

When you buy a window cleaning round you're not buying plant, machinery, premises etc....all you're buying is "good will". And as there's no guarantee the customers will stay with you (and reading past threads it's hit and miss) I think 3 times is more than enough.

I take your point Simon.  That's probably where we start when BUYING a round.  However, what about when SELLING a round.  I'm sure you wouldn't want the business that you have been nurturing to be onsale for so little.
I actually believe that my rounds value is good for the work it DOESN'T contain because I trimmed most of that away years ago.  I have no troublesome customers, only 3 who need prior arrangement to be made, and, apart from a few elderly people's bungalows where I couldn't be bothered to explain WFP, it's all done by WFP and the customers appear OK with it.  Very little ladder access is needed though a step ladder and claw hammer are useful on some bits (bolts half way down some of which need a tap with a hammer).

[Helen]

that's a good point Simon for anyone thinking of selling a wc round.
There are no guarantees that the whole round you sell./purchase will be there still in 3 months time or whatever!
I do think though that if you are selling a round a % of the value should be applied to the price for the "behind" the scenes work involved. EG if the round was worth £500 sell for 3 times = £1500 and say 15% on top(£225) Just plucked those figures out of mid air The purchaser would soon recoup the 15%.  Personally there would be no way I would pay more than 3 times worth without some sort of guarantee

[simon knight]

taking up on past comments made on the board re valuation of rounds don't you think its about time we got together and reassess the valuation of our rounds making ourselves a few extra quid when we eventually sell thus reflecting the hard work put into building the round up.

For example someone with no experience at all can walk into window cleaning and in some cases buy a small round of say £250.00 per week for as little as £2,000.00  which to me is seriously low.....I'll start the revaluation programme and suggest a compact well paying round should have a valuation of between X8 to 10 of the monthly clean IE £2,ooo per month should be valued at between 16 to 20 grand.

This seems to me to be a fair price to ask  someone who then is able to earn a wage of £500 PW which in some cases they won't have to work all week for .....Anyone agree with me

When you buy a window cleaning round you're not buying plant, machinery, premises etc....all you're buying is "good will". And as there's no guarantee the customers will stay with you (and reading past threads it's hit and miss) I think 3 times is more than enough.

I take your point Simon.  That's probably where we start when BUYING a round.  However, what about when SELLING a round.  I'm sure you wouldn't want the business that you have been nurturing to be onsale for so little.
I actually believe that my rounds value is good for the work it DOESN'T contain because I trimmed most of that away years ago.  I have no troublesome customers, only 3 who need prior arrangement to be made, and, apart from a few elderly people's bungalows where I couldn't be bothered to explain WFP, it's all done by WFP and the customers appear OK with it.  Very little ladder access is needed though a step ladder and claw hammer are useful on some bits (bolts half way down some of which need a tap with a hammer).

This is a round you've spent years to polish and your customers all love you and wouldn't dream of ever having any other shiner but you Shiner ...and you earn £XXX a week from it. And I'll bet your eventual buyer won't match your turnover/profit....because they won't have the good will you've established over the years.

Most big PLCs when they put themselves up for sale value their good will as zero!

[cvdewsbury]

SHINER nice to hear someone with us....if you got out of window cleaning would someone set you on with a wage of £500 pw?  I couldn,t get that no chance ..so theres my point for a relatively small outlay of 4 to 6 k someone can achieve this figure.

As for other posters on buying a round and losing customers  ive never had this problem infact within  3 or 4 cleans the round is always up on what I purchased ....I think if you complete the work to the highest standard ,polite to the customer,don,t increse the price too much on takeover you can not lose......by the way i,m trad with domestic customers  

[Ian_Giles]

My own round is now over 25 years old, and it is currently a bloody good round with a terrific balance of very well paying (and I mean VERY well paying) commercial work and some superb residential accounts.
Even on a bad week, or series of weeks, the income it generates is very good indeed.

There is no way on earth I would sell this round for just three times it's monthly value!

If I sold my round for...say, £10,000, the buyer would be in profit inside 12 months.
The odds are they will be coming into window cleaning from a totally different sector, maybe buying the work with a redundancy payout, quite possibly their previous income would barely equal half the turnover that can be generated from the round.
So for nine or ten months they could be working at roughly the same income level they were as before.
And after such a tiny period of time they have paid for the round and are in profit...

How many other businesses could you buy for such a low price, and within a few months have an income considerably in excess of 30k? And with relatively low running costs too..

But I also value my customers, no way would I sell it to some berk who would ruin it inside of 6 months.
So I would also take them on for a month or more to train them and educate them in the round, and also to slowly introduce them to all my customers.
Every round, every account, they all have certain ways of cleaning them that are most efficient, for my buyer to benefit he would need to know exactly what he was doing, so vital he accompanies me for a few weeks, and that I'm also on hand to offer help whilst he gains his feet.

I'm not offering this level of help and support for a piddling three times it's monthly turnover!
And no way would I let it go for a paltry 10k either by the way!

Your round is worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it.

Some rounds I wouldn't give a tenner for, but a round such as Roy harding has...well, that one is worth it's weight in gold!

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

...


But I also value my customers, no way would I sell it to some berk who would ruin it inside of 6 months.

..


Ian

Darn! I was about to make you an offer Ian!

[ronnie paton]

it annoys me that people say YOUR ONLY BUYING THE CUSTOM??? is that not the same if you bought a cafe or a shop or a printers ect ect but they demand more for there businesses!

[cvdewsbury]

So gentlemen those who are agreeing with me so far are we going to proceed with the raising the bar to say x8 or x10 on  quality domestic round.....think of it as its worth to you and also a nice lump sum to add on to your retirement fund......by the way still pi**ing it down here in w.yorks

[simon knight]

My own round is now over 25 years old, and it is currently a bloody good round with a terrific balance of very well paying (and I mean VERY well paying) commercial work and some superb residential accounts.
Even on a bad week, or series of weeks, the income it generates is very good indeed.

There is no way on earth I would sell this round for just three times it's monthly value!

If I sold my round for...say, £10,000, the buyer would be in profit inside 12 months.
The odds are they will be coming into window cleaning from a totally different sector, maybe buying the work with a redundancy payout, quite possibly their previous income would barely equal half the turnover that can be generated from the round.
So for nine or ten months they could be working at roughly the same income level they were as before.
And after such a tiny period of time they have paid for the round and are in profit...

How many other businesses could you buy for such a low price, and within a few months have an income considerably in excess of 30k? And with relatively low running costs too..

But I also value my customers, no way would I sell it to some berk who would ruin it inside of 6 months.
So I would also take them on for a month or more to train them and educate them in the round, and also to slowly introduce them to all my customers.
Every round, every account, they all have certain ways of cleaning them that are most efficient, for my buyer to benefit he would need to know exactly what he was doing, so vital he accompanies me for a few weeks, and that I'm also on hand to offer help whilst he gains his feet.

I'm not offering this level of help and support for a piddling three times it's monthly turnover!
And no way would I let it go for a paltry 10k either by the way!

Your round is worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it.

Some rounds I wouldn't give a tenner for, but a round such as Roy harding has...well, that one is worth it's weight in gold!

Ian

Yes ok for a round that's been established for 25 years with good, well paying accounts and somebody to hold my hand/make the introductions for the 1st month or so...then yes 3 times is ridiculous!

But for the vast majority of lesser rounds I still reckon 3 times is about right...because:

1) Books do get cooked
2) I reckon the buyer will lose 1/3 to 1/2 of the customers (because: " he's not my old window cleaner Ian")
3) It's almost as easy to build a round from scratch than buy a round and learn about the various customers funny little ways etc.

[ronnie paton]

simon i dont agree 1/3 or even 1/2???
yes you may lose the odd one but if you do a good job introduce your self come a cross has proffesional and reliable you will be fine and you will find you will pick more up to compensate for the ones you lost cause they idnt like the previous cleaner.

its easy to do you own round?? really well it takes time motivation more time knock backs struggling with no work stress cause you have no money ect ect ect

but i do agree that if you was buying a business van ststem paperwork the full lot it would be worth more.

[cvdewsbury]

My own round is now over 25 years old, and it is currently a bloody good round with a terrific balance of very well paying (and I mean VERY well paying) commercial work and some superb residential accounts.
Even on a bad week, or series of weeks, the income it generates is very good indeed.

There is no way on earth I would sell this round for just three times it's monthly value!

If I sold my round for...say, £10,000, the buyer would be in profit inside 12 months.
The odds are they will be coming into window cleaning from a totally different sector, maybe buying the work with a redundancy payout, quite possibly their previous income would barely equal half the turnover that can be generated from the round.
So for nine or ten months they could be working at roughly the same income level they were as before.
And after such a tiny period of time they have paid for the round and are in profit...

How many other businesses could you buy for such a low price, and within a few months have an income considerably in excess of 30k? And with relatively low running costs too..

But I also value my customers, no way would I sell it to some berk who would ruin it inside of 6 months.
So I would also take them on for a month or more to train them and educate them in the round, and also to slowly introduce them to all my customers.
Every round, every account, they all have certain ways of cleaning them that are most efficient, for my buyer to benefit he would need to know exactly what he was doing, so vital he accompanies me for a few weeks, and that I'm also on hand to offer help whilst he gains his feet.

I'm not offering this level of help and support for a piddling three times it's monthly turnover!
And no way would I let it go for a paltry 10k either by the way!

Your round is worth whatever you can get someone to pay for it.

Some rounds I wouldn't give a tenner for, but a round such as Roy harding has...well, that one is worth it's weight in gold!

Ian

Yes ok for a round that's been established for 25 years with good, well paying accounts and somebody to hold my hand/make the introductions for the 1st month or so...then yes 3 times is ridiculous!

But for the vast majority of lesser rounds I still reckon 3 times is about right...because:

1) Books do get cooked
2) I reckon the buyer will lose 1/3 to 1/2 of the customers (because: " he's not my old window cleaner Ian")
3) It's almost as easy to build a round from scratch than buy a round and learn about the various customers funny little ways etc.

2. You will only lose work if you can,t clean the windows to the other cleaners standards, or you overprice the work,or don,t come across right

3.Buiding a round from scratch...there would be the question of how compact it would be ...unless you managed to canvass a new estate........

[poleman]

I wouldn't sell my business but If I did, then I would wont 40k + (van, equipment, staff & work)

Over heads are low and profits are high

Don't under value your business

Andy

[simon knight]

I've never bought a round so my guess of losing 1/3 to 1/2 is based on what would happen if i sold my round. Most of my customers are funny cups of tea and if they had their way would have them done once every pancake day. But because I've been doing them for so long I can jolly them into being ish regular and can make a (good) living.  Any poor sod buying my round would struggle big time....3X's for my round?...blimey I'd be lucky to give it away

[pootwo]

IL HAVE IT THANK YOU

[simon knight]

IL HAVE IT THANK YOU

W.Yorks might be a bit too far to travel....but when I'm ready to retire I'll give you 1st option Pootwo