[twt]

I have always believed that good rounds are under valued, think of this way.
A bright kid gets good A level grades and goes off to UNI. Three years later, and 20 grand in debt he goes and looks for a job. If he's lucky, he finds a job that pays 25k to start, and then pays back his student loans.
Another bright lad pays 10k for a round, he already earns 75k whilst the other one is still in UNI, considerably more if he's a good business man and progressively improves his round.
I know what I would rather do. Dai

buy a round for 10k and develop it so you have a 75k profit within 3-4 years(average length of time at uni) i would say that is very unlikely and if someone is talented enough to accomplish such a feat i think they would be using there talents in more lucrative areas of business.

yes window cleaning is a very good income for a "unskilled" job and even beats quite a few "skilled" jobs and some people will do extremely well out of it but the vast majority will do ok.(by ok i mean beat the national average salary) but be under no illusions if you listen to what people on here say many of them earn fortunes and should be well into the 40% tax bracket and be vat registed but when you ask about peoples experience of paying 40% tax there is a deafening silence.

also you have to ask yourself do your potential buyers for window cleaning rounds have large quantities of money or access to finance to pay the amounts that would be asked for rounds mentioned in this post. i think some are in fantasy land.

[Nathanael Jones]

I take your point Nathanael but you are looking at it from a buyers perspective I think( it would be hard to pay 8x 10x if you were buying), would your opinion be the same if you were thinking of selling?

Just because I think the fluffy dice in my van add €10k to its value, doesn't mean its possible to sell it for that extra €10k,.... the market dictates,... there isn't really a choice if you actually want a successful sale.

If you have commercial work with written contracts covering a future timespan of 2 years or more, these future years of contracted work could boost the value of your round,.. but failing that, you're going to find it hard to find a buyer at 10x the work value.

[Sir Squeaky]

Anyone want mine?

£30 or nearest offer. :

[Paul Coleman]

Anyone want mine?

£30 or nearest offer. :

After reading what you've said about many of the custies on your round, I wouldn't take it off you if you paid me   

[Londoner]

Its all very well saying a round is worth 2X, 3X, or even 10X. The problem lies in finding someone with that sort of money who is prepared to hand it over to you in exchange for no more than a list of names and addresses.

Rounds changed hands in the past for what was really a token payment rather than a true reflection of the value.

I can still remember the dodgy rounds being offered in Loot about 15 years ago and a lot of gullable people got ripped off by scammers. My opinion has been permanently tainted by those sharks.   

My round is worth a lot to me but I very much doubt that anyone else would pay me what I think its worth. I have known of a couple of old timers who tried to sell their rounds and couldn't find a buyer even though they were only asking shirt buttons. The other window cleaners just waited till he packed up then canvassed his roads themselves for free.

[bluez]

I take your point Nathanael but you are looking at it from a buyers perspective I think( it would be hard to pay 8x 10x if you were buying), would your opinion be the same if you were thinking of selling?

Just because I think the fluffy dice in my van add €10k to its value, doesn't mean its possible to sell it for that extra €10k,.... the market dictates,... there isn't really a choice if you actually want a successful sale.

If you have commercial work with written contracts covering a future timespan of 2 years or more, these future years of contracted work could boost the value of your round,.. but failing that, you're going to find it hard to find a buyer at 10x the work value.

Fluffy dice....you should have said...I'll give you 20 x 

[twt]

Its all very well saying a round is worth 2X, 3X, or even 10X. The problem lies in finding someone with that sort of money who is prepared to hand it over to you in exchange for no more than a list of names and addresses.

Rounds changed hands in the past for what was really a token payment rather than a true reflection of the value.

I can still remember the dodgy rounds being offered in Loot about 15 years ago and a lot of gullable people got ripped off by scammers. My opinion has been permanently tainted by those sharks.   

My round is worth a lot to me but I very much doubt that anyone else would pay me what I think its worth. I have known of a couple of old timers who tried to sell their rounds and couldn't find a buyer even though they were only asking shirt buttons. The other window cleaners just waited till he packed up then canvassed his roads themselves for free.

nice to see some people on here live in the real world this forum is great for advise about equipment and pracitical things but as soon s you start talking about money you get a whole load of creative writing.

[Roy Harding]

The thing with the forum is we all have different aims and goals, what is achievable to some may seam as fiction to another.

If when I started I new what potential there was in Window cleaning as I do now. I would buy a well established round that had been cultivated to give max potential. A good look at accounts and work would soon show what was achievable.

Drawing up a sensible business plan, and a business loan over the required period would enable you to step right in at the top end of the market. And for this I would be willing to pay.

But there are extremes in window cleaning, some change there squeegee rubbers daily others every month or more. Again some spend to promote there business others don’t.
The fact is neither are right or wrong, you set your goals as to what you want in life.

As I said earlier you can put what price tag on you like, but its only worth what someone will pay.


Roy 


 

[Dean Aspects]

The thing with the forum is we all have different aims and goals, what is achievable to some may seam as fiction to another.

If when I started I new what potential there was in Window cleaning as I do now. I would buy a well established round that had been cultivated to give max potential. A good look at accounts and work would soon show what was achievable.

Drawing up a sensible business plan, and a business loan over the required period would enable you to step right in at the top end of the market. And for this I would be willing to pay.

But there are extremes in window cleaning, some change there squeegee rubbers daily others every month or more. Again some spend to promote there business others don’t.
The fact is neither are right or wrong, you set your goals as to what you want in life.

As I said earlier you can put what price tag on you like, but its only worth what someone will pay.


Roy 


 

Thats an excellent post most wise
We are all different with differing outlooks and what works for one wont work for another we all have aims and aspirations how we get their and the time taken to do this also differs
Therefore the value of each round can differ from the perspective of the owner but a well priced round should in theory be worth more

Dean

[ronnie paton]

i look at it has a business and im a business man  im not just a window cleaning who has a round.

i feel i could if i wanted get good money for my business cause i would sell it to them like a do my customers!

[dai]

If a guy buys a round for £10 grand and he makes 25k a year, He will have earned 75k over 3 years.
The guy in UNI will have earned nothing during this time.
That was the point I was trying to make. Dai

[NWH]

There are companys out there that specialise in this,they will value your business for you.If required they can help you sell it,for a fee of course.

[NWH]

All shops and most businesses are self employed,you only ever buy good will in any business i don`t know where that mental approach comes from,buying any business is a gamble otherwise it would be easy wouldn`t it,it would be just a case of raising the money and you`d be earning straight away,that`s the beauty of our business you can do exactly that.

[twt]

I see your point dai i thought you was saying he would earn 75k in a year!!! and yes this is realistic and a very good point and thought provoking as what would give the greater return in the long run a degree or the round bought for 10k i suppose it would depend on the person and how they used the degree or round to their benefit.

[Village Gleam]

Phil.
A lot of sense by all the posters including you. Let me take you up on that creative thing.

I'm convinced that a lot of the successfull people - Roy Harding excepted- don't post because of the awfull backlash you can recieve. Look at the mauling I'v had over the last few days- Mr Solubity's super sonic crap- get rich quick merchant- £600 a day and never affected by weather- characterised as snidey etc.

Mention a branded system like ionics or concepto2, investing in a van mount, sign writing, or professionaly approaching leaflets and marketing and all heck can break loose.

So what I'm saying is leaving me aside- and assuming I do talk a lot of crap- very many people who are in a postion to give us a word to the wise don't, because of this mentality.

[Paul Coleman]

Phil.
A lot of sense by all the posters including you. Let me take you up on that creative thing.

I'm convinced that a lot of the successfull people - Roy Harding excepted- don't post because of the awfull backlash you can recieve. Look at the mauling I'v had over the last few days- Mr Solubity's super sonic crap- get rich quick merchant- £600 a day and never affected by weather- characterised as snidey etc.

Mention a branded system like ionics or concepto2, investing in a van mount, sign writing, or professionaly approaching leaflets and marketing and all heck can break loose.

So what I'm saying is leaving me aside- and assuming I do talk a lot of crap- very many people who are in a postion to give us a word to the wise don't, because of this mentality.

I suppose another way of viewing it is that the really successful people are too busy building their businesses to be bothered with coming to an internet forum.
I can't see why someone would be attacked for being successful myself.
I'm not doing anything particularly special myself but this years turnover is on course to being nearly double of two years ago.  Will probably be 80% more when all is done but might end up being double if I pull my finger out.  Coming fairly close to doubling my turnover in nearly three years is reasonably successful I suppose.  If my starting point had been very high, it might be something to shout about but as it is, it's just a decent achievement when you consider that this has been done as a sole trader rather than by taking on extra help.

[Village Gleam]

We couldn't get one single o2 user to post, and i have seen several examples of people telling what should have been inspirational success stories only to recieve severe bragging and name calling posts in reply.

[bluez]

The title on this thread is "undervaluing ourselves" not how much should we value our businesses at.

It goes without saying that you only have a successful sale if you agree a price with a buyer, but what has that got to do with how we as w/c value ourselves.

I  am sure that there are lots of posters on here who will never sell their businesses (maybe that includes me) because they value them higher than the market, nothing wrong in that, it just shows that you like and value your business greatly.