[Small but perfectley formed]

Any one seen new portable RO on window cleaning warehouse site ,what do you make of it hefty price but looks very interesting if it does what it says??

[Alex Gardiner]

They are from America, I think a firm called Eagle makes them. They are solid well made machines with triple 20" RO units.

I would imagine that the 500 litres per hour would depend very much on the units working on a high pressure mains supply (the Americans tend to have higher pressure higher flow rate mains supplies compared to us) and the input water temperature being above 15 degrees.

It would be best to get a demonstration of it on your water supply first to check actual production rate.

[riz]

They are from America, I think a firm called Eagle makes them. They are solid well made machines with triple 20" RO units.

I would imagine that the 500 litres per hour would depend very much on the units working on a high pressure mains supply (the Americans tend to have higher pressure higher flow rate mains supplies compared to us) and the input water temperature being above 15 degrees.

It would be best to get a demonstration of it on your water supply first to check actual production rate.

Hi Alex, does tempreture effect the filling time through an RO as mine has taken n hour longer this week to fill a 300 ltr tank

[Alex Gardiner]

The input temperature will greatly affect production time. Whilst the below ground temperature does vary as greatly as air temperature it can still be about half the temperature of a summer ground temperature. All water pipes are run underground so are affected.

I have known RO production rates to be half in the winter.

[Captain Scarlet]

If your considering this @ £3500 excl vat

http://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/shop/products/trolley-systems/ultra-pure-ro-electric.html


then consider this @ £1500 but in USA
http://reachhigherground.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=175

[Neil Williams]

A quick test to see if this would be anywhere near 500L/hr for you would first be to measure the amount of tap water coming out of your taps.
Even if you did have 500L/hr tap water the producvtion will be less than that because of what goes to waste.
Anyone know what the waste to product ratio is on this system?

[brightnclean]

A quick test to see if this would be anywhere near 500L/hr for you would first be to measure the amount of tap water coming out of your taps.
Even if you did have 500L/hr tap water the producvtion will be less than that because of what goes to waste.
Anyone know what the waste to product ratio is on this system?

Flow rate has nothing to do with pressure. Any tap will give a LOT more than 500LPH water flow. What is needed is pressure for optimum RO output production.

As Alex says water temerature also has a very big effect on RO output. Alex I am pretty sure the IPC Eagle only uses 2 x 20 inch RO membranes.  The waste to product should be set no lower than 1 to 1 in a twin 20 inch or a single 40 inch memrane system. It can be altered down to whatever you like but doing that will mean you use a lot more resin and will drastically shorten the life of your RO membranes.

Neither of these systems will give the stated output figures over here.

[windowwashers]

Neither of these systems will give the stated output figures over here.

It's interesting to see how people know so much about something they haven't actually got/used/seen in action! :

It has a 2hp pump pushing the water through at 180psi, the waste is nowhere near what you get with standard tap pressure RO's which work off a low pressure membrane which is 90% of WFP systems out there. It's powerful enough to suck water from a static tank with no mains pressure to a WFP operator instantly.

With the temperature (near freezing) at the moment they are producing around 450ltrs an hour (confirmed) - not bad for this time of year.

Due to the potential and possibilities a certain well known company (who pride themselves on innovation) are trying to copy the Ultra Pure at the moment and word has it they have a weaker imitaition they are trying to release for the March Windex show.

PS. Luke the one in your photo with it's little shureflo pump and battery on it wouldn't produce anything near what the Ultra Pure does! and besides that it looks rubbish - the Blue Peter Version!!

is there anywhere to get the specs of this system ?

Ian

[brightnclean]

Ian.

http://www.eaglepower.com/rodi.html

For the specs. (PDF).

For Foxman. I didn't realise that it has a 2hp pump. Given that it has then I don't doubt your figures for output and yes there will be a lot less waste. Ur right ..no I haven't used one but I do have a pretty decent knowledge of RO's. Is it the mains electric one that has the 2hp pump? If so that's the only disadvantage I can see about it. Other than that it seems a VERY good piece of kit.

[Captain Scarlet]

Hi Foxman! Yes I realised it wasnt going to be adequate for filling a fleet of systems but purely for a system to clean windows with it would be good. Your system has loads of different possibilities, but if JASON just wanted to clean windows then the Reachhigherground model would be good, Luke

[Count Phil]

They also do a diesel heater cart as well. I asked alot of questions (US site) and the guy recommended that the heater was used before the RO.

The heaters minimum temp setting was 66 centigrade and went up to 80 something, which I thought was too hot. But he said that hot water filters much much better than cold.

[Alex Gardiner]

Neither of these systems will give the stated output figures over here.

It's interesting to see how people know so much about something they haven't actually got/used/seen in action! :

It has a 2hp pump pushing the water through at 180psi, the waste is nowhere near what you get with standard tap pressure RO's which work off a low pressure membrane which is 90% of WFP systems out there. It's powerful enough to suck water from a static tank with no mains pressure to a WFP operator instantly.

With the temperature (near freezing) at the moment they are producing around 450ltrs an hour (confirmed) - not bad for this time of year.

Due to the potential and possibilities a certain well known company (who pride themselves on innovation) are trying to copy the Ultra Pure at the moment and word has it they have a weaker imitaition they are trying to release for the March Windex show.

PS. Luke the one in your photo with it's little shureflo pump and battery on it wouldn't produce anything near what the Ultra Pure does! and besides that it looks rubbish - the Blue Peter Version!!

Hi Foxman,

Having read the blurb on your website nowhere does it mention the need for a power source or that it has a booster pump, in fact your site says "No 12v connections required." This is why I presumed that the 500l rating was based on US figures. With a 180psi electric pump then it all makes sense!

I think that www.hughcranes.co.uk are selling the same system from Eagle.

[stevekennedy]

YOu can see from the spec that it is using a booster pump. 100 psi 2 gal per min running off a gel battery (33ah).

For this case study, the water is 120 tds.

The information I have is that, with only 100 psi you need approx 40% of water going to waste or you will knacker the RO very quickly. We have 125psi booster pump and we have 40% going to drain. They are working 3 RO's so they could be recycling. This would mean approx 7% going to drain.

But the 2nd filter will have 237 TDS water going through it and the final filter will have 570 tds going through  and the water will be 6 tds coming out.) They would need a DI polisher for this and there is not one present that I can see.

Also, the pump is rated at 2 US gallons per minute. This is approx 7.5 litres. However, this is "theoretical". The minute you attach a hose to it, the flow will drop due to resistance. Let's be generous and say they get 7 litres. 7% minimum goes down the drain. So the best they can hope for is 6.5 litres per minute.

Thus, the BEST they can hope for is 376 litres per hour and the water will NOT be pure.

Also, they claim 12 hr run time. Not possible. 100 psi pumps use approx 8 amps per hour. Thus a 33ah battery will run this for 4 hours only.

Seems to me that this setup is only useful for people with very low TDS supply water.

[Alex Gardiner]

YOu can see from the spec that it is using a booster pump. 100 psi 2 gal per min running off a gel battery (33ah).

Where on window cleaning warehouse's site do you get these spec details?  I can't see them - am I being thick?!  (Answers on a postcard).

Having looked into the trolley a bit more, I think the third 20" canister is actually a DI canister so it's running twin 20" membranes.  I know that these type of systems are very popular in the States.  For some reason, they don't like fitting vehicles up out there and would rather set up at a customer's house.

[stevekennedy]

YOu can see from the spec that it is using a booster pump. 100 psi 2 gal per min running off a gel battery (33ah).

Where on window cleaning warehouse's site do you get these spec details?  I can't see them - am I being thick?!  (Answers on a postcard).

Having looked into the trolley a bit more, I think the third 20" canister is actually a DI canister so it's running twin 20" membranes.  I know that these type of systems are very popular in the States.  For some reason, they don't like fitting vehicles up out there and would rather set up at a customer's house.

Hi Alex

Check the eaglepower website. There is a pdf on there.

[Alex Gardiner]

Thanks for that Steve.  I think the one that window cleaning warehouse has is the electric one that needs mains power.

[stevekennedy]

I think you are right. If so, their advert is very misleading as it claims you can use it in your van or on site.

[Old_Master]

I cannot see why this is any different in concept to the original high pressure RO units, that  Tuckers, OTT (Ionics) and ourselves were selling 10 years ago!

[Alex Gardiner]

There is rarely anything 'new' in the world of RO machines. The only thing that varies is the way of packaging the product. Actually producing a new RO membrane type and housing would I imagine be a little out of the league of almost anyone in the WFP industry due to the infra-structure needed to fund and manufacture and then sell enough of the end product. There would also be 'not a lot of point' as the current technology works as well anything else could.

With the Eagle trolley we have another way of packaging the product. The packaging is very successful in the US market and it will be interesting seeing how the market takes to them here in the UK. I know that www.hughcrane.co.uk has sold about 3 of them in the last few months, so they must appeal to some users.

I have a natural aversion to trolleys due to having to work with one when I first started out (and yet I know that they make good commercial sense to many WFP supply firms). Yet I think that this type of trolley is a cut above due to the lack of need for refilling of a tank. It also looks like a very compact and easily portable solution for those firms who need a portable large scale commercial base system.

I have to say Foxman that this post has probably achieved far more in the way of product promotion for you than sponsoring a whole issue of PWC!

[Old_Master]

Hi Foxman
I will look for technical information, but its been seven or eight years since we stopped using them, about the same time as Ionics.
Heres a little history lesson of why we discontinued the use of high pressure equipment, no offence but its the easiest way for me to explain.

The main reason for discontinuing the use was the cost and availability of spares eg: the high pressure replacement pumps were about £800.00 trade cost and took weeks to arrive from the suppliers.
The cost factor was  a big concern as one or two other manufacturers got into the market using 10" low pressure domestic membranes which were a 30th of the trade cost of our equipment ( but they only produced from 15 to 50 gpd) so they could sell at say a thousand pounds less but still be making many times more profit, the customers were not so knowledgeable  back then and  didnt realise that the cheaper versions only produced small amounts of water until they had parted with their money.
 
When small membranes  that could produce 100 gpd became available about seven or eight years ago we switched over to them as it was easier equipment for our customers to operate. Ionics went down the low pressure 4040 membrane route so no mains power was needed. again a benifit to customers. Maybe the pumps have become easier to source now and certainly the set up shown is not so complex in appearance in the photos.

On another issue I thought Steel Eagle were Ionics agents in the States?