[Lesley J]

I have an employee that started work on 1st of October, I gave her a job offer in writing that stated that she would be on trial for three months, she was fine at first, it took some time to get a reference for her from her previous employer, I telephoned in the end and got a horror story, but decided to give her the bennifit of the doubt, the written one I eventually received was not good either. her conduct now is not good, she is continually complaining about the terms and conditions, and I have told her that she agreed to these when she took the job and that I am not going to change them, she has refused to do a job because she said that she was not prepared to travel approx 4 miles to it unless she was paid more money, she has also stated that she cannot manage on the pay, I give her the hours and more,if I can, that she requested on a regular basis,I pay more than the minimum wage,I feel that I have bent over backwards to acommodate this girl, paying her weekly instead on monthly like every one else, can I get rid of this girl now, the other girls dont like working with her, I am prepared to pay her any holiday owing plus 1 weeks pay in lieu of notice I dont want her to work her notice, or do I have to go down the verbal warning, written warning route, her work is ok, its just her conduct I cannot work with.

[Scotbrite]

Hi Lesley,
U gave this person a job on a three month trial basis, she has not completed this period. Therefore you are completely within your rights to just tell her she has failed her probationary period, you don't have to explain why, and pay her one weeks pay ( in liu of notice if u don't want her to work anymore) and any holiday pay she has built up.
 Hope this helps,

Regards.

Ron

[steve doyle]

Definatly as ron said,

 a straight thank you but its not worked out so good bye and do it as soon as possible.  Although having said that, you can let anyone go in their first 12 months with no problem (pay notice etc) should you want to.

[Lesley J]

thank you for your speedy response, I just feel this person will keep on stirring up trouble, she is not happy and there is no point in her staying.

[glenda hollis]

On the subject of her poor reference, it was my understanding that you cannot issue a bad reference - it must be good OR you must refuse to supply a reference at all. I have looked this up on the net and although it is not as black and white as i have just stated, you do, it seems, have tobe able to prove everything that is said and if its a negative comment then you have to prove you have evidence and investigations were put in place etc to back this up. If you fire her Keybrite, what sort of reference will you be giving her?

[Janey]

Hi
I would do what Steve has said.  Get rid of her as soon as possible before she does any damage.

Janey

[carpet guy]

If you are an employer, you MUST get up to date information ACAS are helpful, but we found a company who specialise in Employment Issues and they will even make up a customised Company Handbook and an Employee Handbook, they will also advise / represnt your business should you end up at a tribunal, etc.       PENINSULA is their name and the annual cost is very little.

[BDCS]

Hello, I still do 2 days a week at a big firm and they use "law at work " but up to a year they give 1 hours notice paid and escort the sacked person off site. I am a one man band but I would never keep anyone on if I did'nt want them - law or not you may have to pay them off but the damage they could do to your good name will cost more. Sack them now and worry not ! AND I AM A UNION MEMBER

[steve doyle]

I believe in the sack now mentality, its to dangerous to keep a pi55ed off employee around.

But rest assured you dont need a reason to let people go in the first 12 months, you just pay what is owed and as this case is failing a trial period it is perfectly valid for you say "its not working out, you have failed". If they argue just dont get into it, Its your decision, bye bye! If they do kick off and want more info make an appointment to come back and see you in a weeks time. They wont! but it also gives you time to sort out your plan.

[Mrs Nicholls]

your employee sounds exactly like one of mine, first 6 months not really ahd any problems with her, then probationary ended and she now wants to always undermine me, complains that we dont pay her enough and travel out of a few miles radius is definatley a thing to put her in a bad mood. She has a bad attitude and some customers have noticed it, she just has an aggressive tone of voice, like she came into my home ( istill work from there) and she said to my other half, in a very aggressive intimidating tone, is she here then!!!! and before now she has been fine when she has been greeted by other people when coming into my home and as soon as she sees me she puts on an attitude and pulls the most distressing faces, likened to 'the grinch' a 'raging bull' and some of my best loyal customers call her face ache!! she can be terrifing, i dont know what her problem is i've tried talking to her, but always comes to money, and one time her asking to borrow money from us!?

We need her as an employee at the moment bus as soon as we find new staff, she may find her position under threat.

Get rid of her if you can.

All the best
Lisa

[Lesley J]

I feel for you Lisa, we really cannot be short staffed right now, but she has got to go, she will kick off when I tell her but I cannot have her any longer, as she will not get any better, We requested a reference from her previous employer 3 times, we phoned in the end and got a verbal report which they said was off the record, a we then received a written on, which just stated she worked to and from etc, but also said that she was not a good cleaner, even though she has passed NVQ stage 2.  I went to ACAS and they said I had to give a verbal warning then a written etc etc, but I thought that I had no need to do this as she is still on probation, we will see what happens when I do the dirty deed

[glenda hollis]

Keybrite I can well understand why her previous employer refused to supply a reference, it goes back to what i was saying earlier. Obtaining the NVQ 1 and 2 unfourtunatly proves very little other than the fact that they were able to demonstrate to the trainer that they CAN clean correctly when being assesed, it has little to do with what they actually do in real life. A bit like passing your driving test and then being a terrible driver. Will you be mentioning what bit of a reference her previous employer gave you? Apparently the previous employer is not allowed to release to your employee (their ex employee) a copy of what they wrote due to DPA but you must do so if requested...what is your actual grief, is it her conduct or her cleaning ability, i ask this only as you mentioned her conduct as being your problem and the cleaning as her ex-employers problem. Which of these (or both) will you be telling her is the reason for sacking her?

[garyj]

I have refused to give a reference loads of times, they always ask "would you take this person back on", then theres your chance to say "noooo way".

[steve doyle]

Yup,
i gues you only need ever say;

 "my mother told me, if you cant say anything good about someone dont say anything at all"

swiftly followed by

 "so no comment!"

[glenda hollis]

Well quite, only with a reference there are obvioulsy legal implications too. i was led to belive that 'not giving a  reference' spoke volumes.

[carpet guy]

Some of you really need proper advice about the legalities of employment. The legslation is tightening all the time and if someone takes you to a tribunal, it's weighted in favourof the employee.

It's all about " following procedures " a pain in the ***e, but, if you fail to do it , it can be costly.

I mentioned Peninsula above and wold recommend you talk to them.

[Lesley J]

Hi Glenda
her previous had a problem with her conduct and behaviour, which they told us verbally, she thought that she was a  better than anyone else and openly criticised their way of working, which did not endear her to her workmates.
the written reference gave the dates she worked to and from and in what capacity, it also stated that she was not as good a cleaner as she thought she was. Iwill be telling her that she has reached the end of her training period and it has not worked out.
 A, because she has managed to upset 2 of my cleaners who have been doing the job for years.
B she has made it quite clear to me that she is not happy with the terms and conditions.. ie pay and travelling times.
C my clients are not impressed, we have lost 3, not long standing but new ones who cancelled after 3 or less cleans, said not getting value for money

[glenda hollis]

Fair enuff. Might be easier for you though if you simply tell her that underr the training period it simply 'hasnt worked' for you. Were i you i would think long and hard about whether i needed to bring points (1) and (3) into it. Point (2) is the one that strikes me as the one where you and she both know the score and have evidence to support it. I would be reluctant to mention the other points, you dont want to give her ammo to throw at you at a later date. Hope it goes alright for you.

[steve doyle]

I agree, why offer up ammo when your not obliged to?

"Sorry its not worked out how i thought it would and so we wont be taking you on permenantly."

if you need proffesional advice, speak to the people recomended above but i wouldent think you need it for this issue.

[Lesley J]

thank you all for your advice, I was not going to tell her what her previous employers said, I was just going to say that it has not worked out for the company, I will pay 1 weeks money + 6 days holiday pay, ...
I am going on holiday for 2 weeks and I dont want any hassle for the lady that is going to run the company for me whilst Im away. wont tell her that either.  Lesley