[Captain Scarlet]

Get what you NEED, not what you WANT!

I really agree with that. I could have spent thousands upon thousands on my system from Ionics or Brodex but all it is in the end is a tank, pump, batter, flow control and a hose and filtration ( I'm lucky my tds is only 34 ). If I felt that spending that extra cash would earn me more money I would have spent it, but it won't. My system looks good and it does everything an Ionic system could. Lets face it, if you took WFP to Dragon Den they would laugh, there in nothing to stop people doing it themselves or other rival companies doing the same thing. But if you dont want to spend the time doing a DIY system I would really recommend people check out Purefreedom. You really couldnt build it for alot cheaper and the time you spent doing it you could be earning money. I like to use the best tools and combine the best from all the manufacturers, thats the best way to do it, Luke

[windowwashers]

The other thing that i find really laughable is the "windowcleaning acadamy" side of things. Cleaning windows by watever method you choose is not exactly brain taxing and hardly worth forking out to sit in a classroom. Just trawl the internet for free.
 The whole pure water system is so unbelievably simple - don't get sucked in by anyone telling you otherwise.

Davew using wfp is not rocket science you are right.

The thing you have to learn is what works, what doesnt, what will make life easier in regards to speed, maintaining system ect ect thats where the learning comes into it IMO so many window cleaners go into this blind and within a month or 2 they sell up and go back to ladders, and again IMO this is the reason why they think its going to be easy and it is not as easy as some on here make it out to be, it can be highly annoying, frustrating, and the hose well thats another story.

Ian

[matt]

The most important thing about WFP isn't what manufacturer's tank system you have fitted in your van BUT what pole and brush head you use, because at the end of the day that is your work tool you'll be holding hour after hour, day after day to earn a living.
You want a rigid pole that is light with a mono-filament brush on the end of it. The next most important thing is to learn the correct method of using WFP to avoid complaints from customers and become very familiar with it so that you can increase your speed to earn more money.
Then you can part with your hard earned cash on hot WFP systems and all singing, all dancing tanks that Joe Public are probably never ever going to see and aren't really interested in anyhow but will you make feel more professional,  raise your self esteem and probably boost your ego
By the way, I built my system myself with the help of one WFP supplier when I first started because the internet help (forums, suppliers weren't well known) and after several years WFP have only just had a water heater installed by Omnipole (even then, I made a recommendation to them regarding the installation after it was fitted, as I'm helpful like that). It's been a learning experience from day one, but I can fault find a problem in minutes and I probably appreciate my WFP gear more than a ready made turnkey operation because I learnt the hard way by myself.

Great reply, completely and totally agree with all Wayne says there.

Get what you NEED, not what you WANT!

Ian

Ian, shouldnt that be

Get what you NEED, not what THEY WANT you to WANT

[NWH]

But they look soooooo pretty,i love em.

[Alex Wingrove]

 

[Neil Williams]

My tupppenceworth for what its worth!
I dont have ionic gear YET, but I've been on the courses run by the bwca and seen plenty of their kit in action.  I'll be the first to admit it isnt the cheapest option, but to be quite honest now that I have seen it everyting else does look kinda rubbish when compared.

Back to basics time. Buy the gold plated nice glossey system if you want but what are you trying to do? Get pure water up a pole to brush a window with and then rinse......end result the same as a DIY set up. Ok you can't use the pretty 'water man' logo but I will get the same results as 'water man' without the £7k outlay.
As for £72 to supply two warning signs that really is taking the p$ss.

[NWH]

If you look on there pice list you`ll be even more shocked cos that price is only for 1 sign.

[matt]

If you look on there pice list you`ll be even more shocked cos that price is only for 1 sign.

  It wil have the little man pic on it though  : : you just cannot put a price on quality  : :

[stevekennedy]

There is a lot of truth in what is being said but maybe image is also an important factor.

The Ionic systems look very good and you get the logos etc which impress corporate customers. It is a shallow world we live in. You also get to use the "Reach & Wash" branding which is the household name amongst those same business customers.

You could create your own image but this would cost more time and money which many people can't be bothered to do. We certainly couldn't.

We have had to make the decision on whether to go DIY or not and we chose to go with Ionic. I felt that the hassle factor of DIY was not for me. Even now, I still prefer to buy a ready to use product if I can get one that does what I need.

I also liked the image the system gave us. We look like we know what we're doing. In fact, we were impressed with Ionic's professionalism to the point that we stock their spares and are happy to give people demos of our Thermopure which has never let us down.

There are other suppliers out there, there is always DIY, but you cannot knock Ionic for their innovation and quality of product. They are expensive, you do get what you pay for IMHO. Some will decide it's worth the extra, others won't. In the end I suppose, we make the decision that is best for our own circumstances and vision.

I don't knock anyone for DIY but is is not for everyone.

[Wayne Thomas]

Question for Steve Kennedy:

Does your Ionic thermopure system have a regulated temperature which the hot water heats up to and then cuts out to prevent overheating and if so what is the temperature it operates at please?  Also, does it have a hot holding tank to reduce unneccessary heating? (Just curious)
The reason I ask is I have just bought an Omnipole hot water unit and it maintains a constant 60 degrees Celsius at the hosereel unless I decide to recirculate it back through the tank.
I'm not trying to knock your Ionic system in anyway, it's a good system although expensive. I'm just trying to make a sensible comparison in the choice I made for myself.

[NWH]

Wayne i`m also thinking of getting the same as you early next year,can you tell me a bit more about yours please ie total cost size and did they change all your system hoses and did they say you can still use minibore.

[Village Gleam]

I'm interested as well Wayne as I think you have bought a great system and had the background knowledge necessary to make this informed choice.

In fact I think we all want to hear more about your system. But please don't turn this into a knocking ionics thing. I started out by thinking thermopure customers were mugs. I don't think that now. For one thing they put themselves years in front of you and I.

What did you say to me "it makes me chuckle all these wc slagging each other off"?.
As I say, there is a lot of geniune interest in your system and you should probably start a fresh post about it (if you want to ), and then all the ionics boys (and lets face it they have years more experience that we do) can have their say. Maybe even the odd concept or on demand lpg loner too !

[matt]

As I say, there is a lot of geniune interest in your system and you should probably start a fresh post about it (if you want to ), and then all the ionics boys (and lets face it they have years more experience that we do) can have their say. Maybe even the odd concept or on demand lpg loner too !

they most prob will not help

1. they will not know how it works, they might not even care
2. they will not help as they will not want others to have a similar system for alot less money

[stevekennedy]

Hi Wayne

Our unit does not have adjustable temp (regretably). However, the new ones have a summer/winter setting which equates to warm and hot. I have considered retro-fitting a thermostat such as Mr Solubility is using.

The system is very simple. You flick a switch and 2 minutes later you have hot water. It starts warm then gets up to about 70 degrees. We use 100m microbore hose so it will not be quite at that temp at the brush.

It uses a holding tank for the water that passes through the boiler. This goes through a st/steel heat exchanger to avoid fouling the pure water. The heater will cut in and out as required. The boiler is a seriously powerful webasto. Even if I am running the pump at full beam with two poles connected the water stays very hot.

Your omnipole system. Have you got the gas fired system or the diesel one? Also, does it affect the TDS? DO you need to filter the water post heater?

[windowwashers]

My tupppenceworth for what its worth!
I dont have ionic gear YET, but I've been on the courses run by the bwca and seen plenty of their kit in action.  I'll be the first to admit it isnt the cheapest option, but to be quite honest now that I have seen it everyting else does look kinda rubbish when compared.

Back to basics time. Buy the gold plated nice glossey system if you want but what are you trying to do? Get pure water up a pole to brush a window with and then rinse......end result the same as a DIY set up. Ok you can't use the pretty 'water man' logo but I will get the same results as 'water man' without the £7k outlay.
As for £72 to supply two warning signs that really is taking the p$ss.I paid about £45 for one, so £72 for 2 aint bad really

[Wayne Thomas]

Hi Wayne

Our unit does not have adjustable temp (regretably). However, the new ones have a summer/winter setting which equates to warm and hot. I have considered retro-fitting a thermostat such as Mr Solubility is using.

The system is very simple. You flick a switch and 2 minutes later you have hot water. It starts warm then gets up to about 70 degrees. We use 100m microbore hose so it will not be quite at that temp at the brush.

It uses a holding tank for the water that passes through the boiler. This goes through a st/steel heat exchanger to avoid fouling the pure water. The heater will cut in and out as required. The boiler is a seriously powerful webasto. Even if I am running the pump at full beam with two poles connected the water stays very hot.

Your omnipole system. Have you got the gas fired system or the diesel one? Also, does it affect the TDS? DO you need to filter the water post heater?

Hi Steve, thanks for answering my questions.

The Omnipole hot water unit I have fitted is a diesel unit.  There is no summer/winter setting switch unlike the Ionic system.

It too uses a 20 litre holding tank for the water that passes through the boiler. It also has a stainless steel burner so there is no need to run the water through a D.I. container to ensure the TDS is 0.00 otherwise the D.I. resin would be used up much quicker than passing cold water through it. When using hot water straight to the pole the heater unit will cut in and out as required ensuring the water is always hot. I am using minibore hose with a 75psi pump with a high flow of water and am not having any problems whatsoever. I think you can run up to a 120psi pump without damaging the heater unit.

Once the heater system is installed it's very simple to use. Basically ensure the water is flowing through it, then turn on the heater and switch on the burner (which is on a seperate switch) away from the heater. To switch off, turn the burner off and switch off the heater then the water flow from the pump. If there is any problems with the heater unit it simply shows up the fault on the LED display clearly indicating what the problem is and shuts down the unit after 2 mins. You can switch it on, work to your hearts content and forget about it until it's time to switch off.

The heater unit is set up so that I can draw the heat straight after the burner to my hosereel for WFP use or I can switch a valve and re-circulate it back through the van mounted baffled tank which is useful for pre-heating the water (Basically to take the chill off of the cold water) whilst I'm driving to work in the mornings. Or I can run it half and half, (half back to the tank and half to the hosereel but I need to turn the waterflow up to do this.
Basically I use cold water for single glazing windows & hot for new cleans and double glazed windows on cold mornings.

I have used a DIY hot water system before having the Omipole hot water unit fitted but am very surprised at what a difference it has made. The omnipole system thoroughly heats the water throughout to a constant 60 degrees and I have noticed a significant increase in my speed when cleaning windows because it literally lifts the dirt off what I thought was clean frames with ease. New cleans really are a breaze same as removing bird poo, what a difference.

I'm not sure how much fuel I'm drawing to heat the burner because it draws diesel from a 10 litre storage tank and it's hard to measure/gauge how much fuel I'm actually using. I intend using red diesel as soon as a supplier will install a bunde tank (double insulated because of new storage regulations) on my property. Then my diesel running costs will be more than halved. Current diesel is £1.07 where I live and red diesel works out at £262 incl VAT & delivery for 500 litres.

The cost of the Omnipole hot water unit was £2500+VAT added on top. Omnipole arranged a finance package through a third party so that I can claim the expense as a lease with one final payment to own the equipment at the end of the fixed term.
It took best part of a day to have the unit fitted up in London. If you decide to have one fitted at Omnipole make sure you use a sat nav as I found it a nightmare trying to find the place using street maps alone. I think I'll be getting a sat nav this Xmas

[Village Gleam]

It's not me who's got a thermostat. I do have a high low temp and flow numpty and a summer winter numpty.
It's on demand LPG so no 20l tank.
I didn't know about the steeless steel heat exchangers and am pretty sure I haven't got this. I have never measured my out tds, After reading this I will have to check it. My set up costs were about £200 and daily use of 400l hot about £1.50.

I agree with all of the above comments.I have significantly altered my van signage, marketing and general approach as a result of this. Ionics is proven to work and very worth the money as I am continually having to think on my feet to solve small problems.(I mean ask on this forum and let someone like Matt or Alex crack it for me )

[windowwashers]

It's not me who's got a thermostat. I do have a high low temp and flow numpty and a summer winter numpty.
It's on demand LPG so no 20l tank.
I didn't know about the steeless steel heat exchangers and am pretty sure I haven't got this. I have never measured my out tds, After reading this I will have to check it. My set up costs were about £200 and daily use of 400l hot about £1.50.

I agree with all of the above comments.I have significantly altered my van signage, marketing and general approach as a result of this. Ionics is proven to work and very worth the money as I am continually having to think on my feet to solve small problems.(I mean ask on this forum and let someone like Matt or Alex crack it for me )

can we see the new signage ?

[stevekennedy]

The Omnipole hot water unit I have fitted is a diesel unit.  There is no summer/winter setting switch unlike the Ionic system.

Can you adjust the temp on it?

ensure the water is flowing through it, then turn on the heater and switch on the burner (which is on a seperate switch) away from the heater. To switch off, turn the burner off and switch off the heater then the water flow from the pump.

Is there a problem with leaving it switched on? Does it get damaged if the water flow stops? We just leave ours on all day and it cuts in and out when we start using it. If you are working and you unplug your pole, the water will obviously stop flowing. Is this a problem?

I know that the gas ones they used to sell needed water flowing all the time but I thought that the diesel one might be more like Ionic's system.

I have used a DIY hot water system before having the Omipole hot water unit fitted but am very surprised at what a difference it has made. The omnipole system thoroughly heats the water throughout to a constant 60 degrees and I have noticed a significant increase in my speed when cleaning windows because it literally lifts the dirt off what I thought was clean frames with ease. New cleans really are a breaze same as removing bird poo, what a difference.

Been saying this for years. What a slagging I used to get for buying a hot system. The customers also think that hot water is great. They really understand the logic. When you talk about dioisation they glaze over. When you talk about hot water they totally get it. Good decision to go for a pro hot system.

[Wayne Thomas]

The Omnipole hot water unit I have fitted is a diesel unit.  There is no summer/winter setting switch unlike the Ionic system.

Can you adjust the temp on it?

ensure the water is flowing through it, then turn on the heater and switch on the burner (which is on a seperate switch) away from the heater. To switch off, turn the burner off and switch off the heater then the water flow from the pump.

Is there a problem with leaving it switched on? Does it get damaged if the water flow stops? We just leave ours on all day and it cuts in and out when we start using it. If you are working and you unplug your pole, the water will obviously stop flowing. Is this a problem?

I know that the gas ones they used to sell needed water flowing all the time but I thought that the diesel one might be more like Ionic's system.

I have used a DIY hot water system before having the Omipole hot water unit fitted but am very surprised at what a difference it has made. The omnipole system thoroughly heats the water throughout to a constant 60 degrees and I have noticed a significant increase in my speed when cleaning windows because it literally lifts the dirt off what I thought was clean frames with ease. New cleans really are a breaze same as removing bird poo, what a difference.

Been saying this for years. What a slagging I used to get for buying a hot system. The customers also think that hot water is great. They really understand the logic. When you talk about dioisation they glaze over. When you talk about hot water they totally get it. Good decision to go for a pro hot system.

Hi Steve,

The temperature is fixed at 60 Celsius.

I leave the heater on all day and it makes no difference if I have the water flowing out of my pole or not as the heater switches on and off as and when it needs to heat the water. No it won't do any damage to the heater if I leave it on all day.

Is it quicker...........hmmm.......hell yes......i.e. .A large place I did today normally takes 1hr 30mins...... I did it in 40mins easy. It's a doddle. I wish I had one installed ages ago
Made me laugh today the woman normally comes out with a coffee when I'm half way through her place and today I was knocking for my money when she came out with the cuppa and she remarked how quick they dried! I've done half of tomorrows work today simply because of using hot water.