[Davew]

Looking for something else and i spotted this:

http://www.concept2o-franchise.co.uk/venture.htm

Now obviously this would be a delicate point on this particular forum (Express Cleaning) but this is the first one i have come accross that shows the figures. I was rather shocked at the expense. What people would this be aimed at? I know it's not the only franchise about, so i'm not having a go at Concept2o as such but the whole idea of franchising in this trade seems a little odd - or is it just me?

[russ_clark]

Its not odd really .
There are some people that run successful franchisees on here.
The C 2o one is a little OTT in my opinion.
Just think for a bit on the whole deal that you could offer
if you had 100's of customers and you were just getting more and more
week by week and you did not want to employ -the potential is great !!
I personally am not in that position yet - as I employ staff but I have a franchise contract in my possession that will be put to use one day.
Just need 1000 more customers 
Russ

[gsw]

Looking for something else and i spotted this:

http://www.concept2o-franchise.co.uk/venture.htm

 the whole idea of franchising in this trade seems a little odd - or is it just me?

i thought that about grass cutting but jim of ~"jims mowing" seems to have managed to sell alot of lawn mowers with van included for a hell of a good return!!!

by the way i would like 2 vehicles on the road if one ONLY earns £96,000 a year!!!!!

[Davew]

They do supply you with some work so i suppose, you are paying for some doorknockers to drum up around three to four hundred pounds a month to cover payments. It just seems a huge outlay if you have no guarantee of work. To pull in 96k you will need some big commercial jobs. Nice picture of there van their by the way.
 I did drive up and look at their van in the Malverns earlier this year but they wern't into franchising then. Nice people. I'm just interested in other peoples views on franchising.

[Davew]

I looked into a locksmith franchise once and that had an initial fee of over 20k plus the company creamed off a percentage of every job you did including all the work you found yourself. They also had a say in the kind of work you did, so if they wanted you to fit burglar alarms instead thats what you had to do.

[Village Gleam]

I've looked at franchises too. Subway- pizza express-signs express-dominoes.

This concept02 looks good too, as window cleaners we all know the business works, our reservation is you can do the same thing for nothing.

If a family member asked me I would say do it.

[mick hay]

The whole idea of franchising to me is to be able to use a "household" name, and fool proof business plan.

e.g. McDonalds, Burgerking and the like.

I really cant see the point in investing tens of thousands of pounds in something thats not nationally known.

I've been asked by some of my customers if my business is franchised!!

For £30k +, i could make enough mistakes, and still get enough customers to have a successful business, a new van, van based system and enough to go and get my new harley davidson  

Anyone knows how to lease a shop, cook a burger and put it in a bun with some cheese and sauce, but if it has the golden arches on it, all the hard work has been done and you are guaranteed custom from the minute you open!

Just my honest opinion!!!

[Village Gleam]

Well you couldn't be more wrong Mick.
To get a mcdee franchise, forget the money that could be anything from 750,000 to 5 mill. They won't let you do this unless you attend hamburger university for 18 months. So so much for anyone knows how to etc.....

I know that you have been a very succesful mentor to a couple on here and there is some truth in what you say. People ask me if i'm a franchise too but i'm only just starting to 'get it' in terms of cutting through this business like a knife through butter.

I read posts on here that say I will save and get a trolley next year and hope to have a van mount in the next five. That's the difference. In five years these people  will have three vans on the road!

[poles apart]

Are Concept2o affiliated to the BFA ( British Franchise Association)?

[Davew]

Mr Solubility how easy would it be to pick up enough work to cover the costs and make a good living? I reckon you would need £4000 worth of work a year just to pay your loan then you would need say another £25k of work minimum on top of that just to scrape by? So a newbie will struggle to get going unless he forks out even more to buy a round. So who would a package like this be aimed at?

[mick hay]

I agree with you about you have to be "chosen" as a franchise.

I know a Mcd franchisee, and also a Wimpey Franchisee, who started in the early 80's and is now minted!!!

But the point im trying to say is, if a franchise is worth is weight, you will be "chosen" cos it is a successful operation and thats why ppl do pay up to and over a million for a  franchise contract, cos you are buying into a world known brand.

But i really cant see what a window cleaning franchise can offer, what you cant find on here.

I found everything i needed on here, and after 2 yrs am doing very well.

There is obviously a market for franchising, but i think it is for those who want there hands held all the way.

[Village Gleam]

I used to read stephen king books and often wondered what he mean't when he'd say ' they caught a burger at a McDonald drive thru'.

When I became aware of the first Mcdonalds in (i think) the early eigthies I was very intereseted. My sister knew someone who was going to have the franchise at fosse park which is near leicester. It was supposed to cost 2 million and then they would have to pay rent etc. How we laughted, 2 mill, for something anybody could do, that had to be the definition of stupid.

Then to make matters worse when it opened my sister went to try it. I asked how it was. Quite dear, with her two kids a drink and a small burger each was over eight pounds. But worse than this, there was no plate you ate it on the table and there was no knife and fork you ate it with your hands. Summary, it was expensive and a bit basic. I was very shocked. Now I think it's normal and love it.

[L.J.Thorpe]

jesus christ read those figures !!!!! 34k outlay !!!!!! you would have to be mad/desperate/both to lay out that kind of money for what is basically just a round ok you get a nice van uniform etc but how long to pay it off and as for potential earning does that really say 96k or is my one good eye playing me up 

[L.J.Thorpe]

good god i have just gone through that website thats 2k aweek for 48 wks to  do that if you want decent hols do they give you the work or what?? who prices new customers??? what am i doing wrong if a novice can make 96k a year from one van?? how much do you pay back a month? how do they adjust prices for different parts of uk?

[mark dew]

i reckon they are using the figure based on 2 people in 1 van which would equal (for arguments sake, but not the general reality) £1K per week per person.
This figure is achievable for many wfp working a 40 hour week at £25 p/h.
But how many work 40 hours per week just cleaning windows? Especially in winter months.
And unless you've got a compressed round which allows you to work these hours, from the beginning, how long would it take to pick up enough compressed work which would exceed this amount.
Of course no one can say it is not possible, but how likely could it be?

I've gotta say though that if i was spending £34k or whatever, i would graft my socks off to make it work. And would have a good punt at that figure or somewhere close to it.
Alas, i have other things i enjoy doing with my life to put all my eggs in 1 basket.
Or should that be 'casket.'

[Londoner]

Two big MacDonalds have closed down near me recently. The one in Pinner and the one in Kingsbury have both gone. There is no such thing as a sure bet.

When you franchise you pay to use their NAME nothing else. If the name is not known to the general public its arguable what you are really getting for your money.

Another Window Cleaning franchise suggested that you didn't have to get your own hands wet. You would sit back in your office directing operations while your "crew" did all the graft. This sounds like a recipe for disaster for someone who doesn't know the business. It can be done and it is done but the people who do it are tough enough to dominate the situation and keep things under control.

To earn the sort of money required to keep an outfit like this on the road requires a lots of top quality accounts. Is that sort of work just sitting around begging? I don't think so. Pricing work like that is mega difficult. You have to go low to beat the competition but still make a profit. No easy thing in this competitive world.

Also, that much work would be spread out over a very large area. How do you include travel time in the equation? Costs still have to be met. A four hour job with three hours travel is a seven hour job. And what can you do with the odd hour- nothing. So you end up paying a days costs plus fuel to do a four hour job. This is the true reality of business. Taking money is comparatively easy, keeping hold of it is another story.

The only good thing I can see is that they are driving up prices. The canvassers have been round our area quoting £35 for a three bed semi. I don't think they got many takers, if any. So when I quote £14 they jump at it.

I think it is a fatal mistake to imagine they can build and sustain a business with those prices. If I see a franchise van working in my area ( and to date I haven't) I would be knocking on that door the following day offering my services for less.   

[Village Gleam]

 you are always good value on a sunday morning vince

[Londoner]

Its called a hang over!

[Davew]

You are getting a brand new van, ro set up, hot wash if you want and poles. Also some training too. As you are leasing there are tax benefits too. If i was very successful and wanted a new van then i would like to purchase a Concept 2o but by that point i wouldn't want a franchise because i would have the round etc already. So does this mean that a franchise is aimed at newcomers to the trade and if so would they have to be gullable? Just like to know if anyone has bought into a franchise and hear their views.

[Londoner]

You summed it all up pretty well there. What experienced window cleaner is going to take out a franchise?