[chris@c.m.s]

Ian that channelling is an older version of this I think. http://www.vulcascot.co.uk/index.php?pg=51

[Dean Aspects]

I use wfp on about 80% of my work but still trad all my shops as i dont want people trailling water into these shops and me getting the blame and to be honest it is far quicker to trad the shops i have as access with hose and pole is poor i also trad many bungalows for similar reasons wfp is a tool as is my squeegee all used to good effect in the right situation and all knowledge gained through my hard earned experience

Dean

[mark dew]

if the shop is away from my van and i didn't use a trolley i always ran the hose along the gutter and put out a couple of safety signs where it bisects the path.
If you are worried about someone trying to claim of you, buy a disposable camera (and keep in van at all times) or use another camera and take a photo of each job you do for the record.
It's easy to try and make a claim but much harder to prove it is you at fault.
You could also:

clean earlier in the day when there are few people about

be splash happy with the water when cleaning, so people avoid you.

[windowwashers]

This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are  still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages 

could you paste it on here or email me the link please.

cheers

Ian

[Ian_Giles]

One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.

Oh come off it.  :
You surely aren't serious?

You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.

Hmmm...which one looks better?

Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.

It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.

It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.

There are certainly times when Trad is quicker and more efficient, and in those cases my squeegee is out like a flash.
If I had just the shops that you do then I too would probably use trad, partly because of the time of day you have to do them...then again, depending on what I was doing that day, I'd come out early, WFP the outsides and pop back later to do the insides of the pubs.

When I lay out my hose I try to ensure that it's easily visible, although in town I'm generally not too worried as I start about 6.30am and there aree very few people about at that time in the morning...

On domestic I just drag the hose out, try and ensure that it goes straight across pavements and so on and isn't all looped and straggly...I go straight across roads too, so far never had a problem (over 3 years remember)

Time I was cleaning shops!

Ian

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

The day my wfp system was being fitted, I did a bit of work with a window cleaner wfp, like an induction course.  He does probably about half the shops in Grantham.  He  was only about 3 or 4 mins per shop from stopping to driving off.  There was no way I could have been any where near as fast.  He didn't bother with trip hazard signs though.  Just used really small air hose and said it wasn't much of a trip hazard.

I would still personally trad in the middle of the day, but wfp early in the morning.

Simon.

[Sir Squeaky]

It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.

Ian

Yes, and you've also had a few of your customers ask me, because they don't like wfp!

No way is wfp quicker shops to shop either.
On each pane maybe slightly on some, but not as whole, not a chance.

There's far more to do as I mentioned earlier with setting up, packing away, and most importantly moving the van.

By the time you've messed about like that I've done 3 or 4 shops.

[trevor perry]

i think both sides of argument can be right i dont do shops any more and squeeks is right in saying some shops wouldnt want water all over windows and floors but i could also see how a trolley system with a small hose and small pole could be extremely fast on shops and the advantage of frames washed would also be beneficial, so really just do what you think works best far you as long as the windows are clean and the customer is happy then great.

[Paul Coleman]

One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.

Oh come off it.  :
You surely aren't serious?

You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.

Hmmm...which one looks better?

Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.

It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.

It depends on the shop, I've actually picked up some because the potential customer loves the fact that their frames are all washed down every time the windows are cleaned...and as for trad being quicker...rog, you know I am not slow with a squeegee, and I'll also lay money that I'm faster than you with a pole too, I have a very good technique, but I wouldn't stand a chance of getting the amount of shops done that I do if I didn't use WFP.

There are certainly times when Trad is quicker and more efficient, and in those cases my squeegee is out like a flash.
If I had just the shops that you do then I too would probably use trad, partly because of the time of day you have to do them...then again, depending on what I was doing that day, I'd come out early, WFP the outsides and pop back later to do the insides of the pubs.

When I lay out my hose I try to ensure that it's easily visible, although in town I'm generally not too worried as I start about 6.30am and there aree very few people about at that time in the morning...

On domestic I just drag the hose out, try and ensure that it goes straight across pavements and so on and isn't all looped and straggly...I go straight across roads too, so far never had a problem (over 3 years remember)

Time I was cleaning shops!

Ian

Funnily enough I will be starting a shop front this weekend with WFP.  There is solid glass above the front which needs to be done with WFP as there is no place to rest a ladder.  Obviously the water will run down so it means the shop front needs to be done with WFP as well.  It's an potentially awkward situation as the shop's window cleaner put me onto it.  He cleans thwe lower part trad once a week and I do the lot every two months.  Due to the weekly application of detergent, it means that WFP may not work so well.  Therefore, I will be doing it early at the weekends and he is switching his cleaning day to Monday in case of quality problems.  Obviously I can't go for quoting the lot each week as this would not really be on.  Anyway, I will be doing it before many people are about and I will be armed with a spray bottle with alcohol based liquid in case of freezing.  It will mean having to drive on the path for a way as well so it will be an early job for that reason too.

[cat9921]

One point why does trad look better, I think wfp look far more professional. so do people I work for cleaning.

Oh come off it.  :
You surely aren't serious?

You do a shop and leave it covered in wet spots and a big puddle on the pavement.
I'll do one and leave it sparkling and perfectly see-through with no puddles.

Hmmm...which one looks better?

Don't get caught in the hype.
It's a great tool, it's faster on upstairs windows, and it's easier usually.

It's not tidier on presentation though.
It's not the be all and end all.

GO for it Squeaky 

[Jeff Brimble]

This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are  still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages 

could you paste it on here or email me the link please.

cheers

Ian

Ian the link is as above but just replace  anotherforum with cleaning pros (oneword) . email sent. sorry it took so long.

[windowwashers]

This topic goes back to 2005 but arguments are  still valid and it applies to all the highway not just the pavements, its over on pros in the A-Z section under Trip hazards by Tom Farr heres the direct link- Its a 3 page topic. http://www.another forum.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2.2/YaBB.pl?num=1129901650/ Hmm still blocked by admin so you will have to make your own way there, if anyones interested I could copy and paste the whole 3 pages 

could you paste it on here or email me the link please.

cheers

Ian

Ian the link is as above but just replace  anotherforum with cleaning pros (oneword) . email sent. sorry it took so long.

got the email many thanks 

[Jeff Brimble]

Heres some bits..

Tom Farr

We have always tried to lay hoses safely in gutters and only cross pavements in a straight line with safety/hazard signs clearly visible.

The attached letter of complaint from our local council has resulted in us needing to use mats to cover hoses when crossing pavements/walkways in addition to existing safety signs. The letter states that section 149 of the Highways Act 1980 gives legal powers to the council to "remove any items which form an obstruction/danger on the public highway" as well as to recover the expenses involved in such removal.

We thought we had H&S fully covered with risk assessments, method statements, hi-vis jackets, yellow hoses, safety signs, vehicle beacon, etc - but apparently not. A telephone discussion with the local highways officer suggested mats to cover hoses as the solution and has phoned again today wanting to know why we have not started using them. (We have now but they only arrived last night!)

The local HSE office have also phoned today with a complaint about our hoses being a trip hazard and said it was a new one on them but the office had discussed it and were suggesting mats as the solution to the trip hazard. They were reassured by the action which we had taken.

Please note 70% of our work is on RESIDENTIAL houses - so this is not an issue just for COMMERCIAL situations.


J wrote on Oct 21st, 2005, 2:47pm:
I wonder if this beaurocratic letter has set a precedent nationally or is it down to each Local Authority to implement indivudually.

Tom I notice that he is complaining about the "footway of the highway" so do you see it as being OK to just use mats wherever the hose crosses the path, or does the road need matting as well ?

This is going to slow the job down a lot. Does anyone make polystyrene light and fast mats ?

From my conversations with Bristol Council this applies to anywhere on the "highway" where the trip hazard exists. Crossing a junction would be included as this is a "walkway". More information is needed to know the full impact. However the call today from the local HSE office shows it needs taking seriously.

We have purchased mats like these: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mat-rubber-backed-washable-magic-mat-dirttrapper-10x3_W...

Tom  

[jeff1]

Ian that channelling is an older version of this I think. http://www.vulcascot.co.uk/index.php?pg=51

I got mine from a guy on a building site, were there were tempory traffic lights, I had a 6' piece off him.
I just got chatting to him and asked him if I could have a piece, took it home and cut it into a 4' & 2' lenght, got my circular saw and widened the channel so my hose fitted in, I use the 2' bit for a public footpath 4' bit for wider paths and both of them together across a road.

Stops people tripping over, and saves your hose when its in the road.
In my picture were my hose goes across the road, a couple of doors down on the right is a H&S officer for the local council.

I never knew this until he introduced himeself, when he came home one day and drove over my rubber protector, he just came over and started chatting about what I had done with the signs and the ramp, the only thing he told me was it should be one complete lenght and not two. : across a road?