[Paula]

I have been advised by the Inland Revenue that as a sole trader in the domestic cleaning industry I am not allowed to employ self employed cleaners, but I have noticed from other cleaning companies websites that all there cleaners are self employed. Does anyone  one know how I can get around this problem as it would be easier form me to have self employed cleaners... Less paper work!

[martin19842]

well thats the first ive heard of that.

what you are actually looking at doing is subcontracting the work to a third party.  as long as all the paperwork is in order i dont see any major problems.

i know domestic cleaning companies, that insist that their staff are on a self employed basis, as this has a big benefit regarding insurance as well.

so i would look into this further.

regards

martin

[Jake]

Paula

The Inland Revenue are obviously correct, but I am not sure that they can 'police' these regulations properly. Basicly. you cannot be 'self-employed' if you are paid hourly or do not supply equipment and/or materials etc. This has been around several years now and was first aimed at the construction industry.You could take a 'chance' but it is, technically, against the law. 

                        Jake.......Westclean

[Clean 'n' Tidy]

Paula,

A way that some companies get round this is by getting the client to pay the cleaner after they have done the cleaning. You will then have to bill the client for your cut. I am not sure if this is the way to go though.

Personally I employ cleaners all my cleaners on PAYE but luckly they are all under the £88, so I have not got involved with paying tax yet.

Hope this helps.

Kim

[Ian Rochester]

Copied this from Business Link page

Am I legally classed as self-employed?

Whether you can be classed as self-employed - as opposed to an employee or a worker - often depends on the level of your independence.

Although there is no individual test that is decisive, you're likely to be classed as self-employed if you:

•   have the final say in how your business is run
•   risk your own money in the business
•   are responsible for the losses as well as profits of your business
•   provide the main items of equipment you need to do your job
•   are free to hire other people on your own terms to do the work you have taken on and pay them at your own expense
•   are responsible for correcting unsatisfactory work in your own time and at your own expense
You can be employed and self-employed at the same time. For example, you may work for an employer during the day but run your own part-time business in the evening.
You must tell the Inland Revenue you are self-employed within three months of the end of the calendar month in which you became self-employed. If you don't, you could face a penalty.
The law is complex and there are no hard-and-fast definitions of self-employment.

Special rules apply for contractors and subcontractors in the construction industry. If you sell your own services through a third party, such as a limited company or partnership, IR35 rules may apply. See the page in this guide on IR35 and other special rules.
You should take advice if you are unsure of your employment status or that of someone who works for you.
 
I found it quite good for deciding whether or not to employ, and how and when they could be perceived as self employed.

If in doubt take  advice from someone like Business link or your accountant. - there are plenty of people cleverer than us out there who know exactly what we can and cannot do

[Ian Gourlay]

Ive talked to a lot of advisors over the years. Very few have been tradesmen. Very few have run a bussiness of their own
Their main experience of being self employed is as a consultant, with bussiness link.

They are usually in Rotary, or the Masons

[George-Reid]

Ian
I could have written that its exactly the same with us.
Shame as these people put off real people joining these organizations. jobs for the boys.

Cheers

George

[adl]

you can employ a self employed cleaner as long as you employ his services on a sub contractor basis

regards Dave ADL

[Paula]

Thank you all  very much for your responces this is very helpful. Still a little confused but I think I will look into going down the sub contractor self employed route...

Cheers

Paula 

[drainman]

If cleaner's are going to work as Self Employed, they might aswell put in for the contract. and have all the money.

[The Great One]

Hi

Not everyone wants or can be in business, some people like the security of a wage.

If you get people to invoice you for the work done, then effectively they will be self-employed or sub contracted.

Don't quote me on this though, always check out any legal or business advice with the professionals.

Regards

Martin

[Cleanersolutions]

Hi

I run a domestic cleaning agency.  As mentioned above, my clients pay the cleaning staff directly and I take payment from my clients by standing order.  So I do not employ the staff, I act as an introductary agency only.

I have an Agency agreement and a cleaner agreement that is signed by the relevant parties that states this and have had no problems.

Regards

Steve

[adl]

Steve,

Correct me if i am wrong but do you not need a licence to be an introductory agency / employment agency. I might be wrong and the two might be different but i thought you needed to be licenced to operate that type of business, im not saying your not, just curious.

regards Dave ADL

[Done 'n' Dusted]

I came across the same problem when I first made enquiries about starting up an 'agency' with the cleaners being self-employed. I spoke to a Solicitor and was told that if the cleaners I sub-contracted worked the same hours on the same day for the same customer each week, fortnight, month, whatever, then were classed as employees, not subcontracters. In which case if I sent them out as sub-contractors this way and the good old IR caught up with ME, I would be liable for NI and Tax contributions. So I decided it was not worth the risk.

And have you thought about liability insurances. What would you do if someone injured themselves because of something your cleaner did, or didn't do?? Or broke something of value. You can get your own public liability insurance, but what about the cleaner?  I have public and employers liability insurance and I sleep better at night for it!!

Incidentally the IR are fully aware that there are cleaning 'agencies' employing 'sub-contactors' to clean for them, and when I visited my Solicitor (which was about 6 months ago now) he did mention that the IR were planning on cracking down on this way of working., and I also heard that there were going to be certain rules and regulation set to stop people like us working that way ........just a point  of notice, dunno if of when that is likely to happen tho'

[adl]

This is true about the inland revenue cracking down on this type , to cover yourself dont pay anyone unless they have given you a proper invoice for the job.

regards Dave ADL