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austin

  • Posts: 104
van leasing
« on: November 05, 2007, 10:05:58 pm »
i am thinking of leasing van and system anyone done this any advice,names of companies would be much appreciated

Dave JP

  • Posts: 48
Re: van leasing
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 09:19:10 pm »
Austin,

After checking around for a while I've found it cheaper to lease the van and the equipment separately and fit it yourself (or have someone fit it for you).

Contracthireandleasing.com do some good van deals over 4 years from £79.00 per month + vat.

You can buy a 450L basic wfp system for £695.00, or rent one from £1.80 a day from some of the bigger suppliers.

Hope this might help.

Dave.

"Everywhere is in walking distance, if you have the time."

Kwackers

  • Posts: 700
Re: van leasing
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 10:51:08 pm »
Would it not be cheaper to take out a loan?

austin

  • Posts: 104
Re: van leasing
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 04:53:30 pm »
the benefit of leasing is it is 100% tax deductable plus other benefits

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: van leasing
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 04:55:53 pm »
100% tax deductable,you say 100%.Please explain how your claiming the whole amount back.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: van leasing
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 05:50:13 pm »
I`m still waiting.

eddie d

Re: van leasing
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 05:52:22 pm »
isnt it a buisness expence? and therefore tax deductable

austin

  • Posts: 104
Re: van leasing
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2007, 05:58:00 pm »
i dont make the laws about tax up ive just read good point about leasing vehicles etc is that the expense is 100% tax deductable which has to be good if you pay tax!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: van leasing
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2007, 06:04:22 pm »
Oh i see Austin you`ve just read the draw you in adverts LOL,i think you`ll find and correct me if i`m wrong that you will only get an allowance for that van that can go against your tax,if leasing was 100% tax detuctable all off us on here would be leasing.If your vat registered you`ll be able to claim back the vat on all those payments and a percentage against your tax bill,but as far as claiming back 100% that would mean that you would be in effect getting the van for free and can you see Gordon Brown standing for that.

Re: van leasing
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2007, 06:45:33 pm »
If you lease a van or equipment it is 100% tax deductable.

I should know & IR say the same.

dave0123

  • Posts: 3553
Re: van leasing
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2007, 06:47:49 pm »
I agree with Macc,



Quote
if leasing was 100% tax detuctable all off us on here would be leasing

Alot of companys lease vans insdead of buying them and get rid after 3 years which is usally what you see on ebay ex leased vans. You dont own the van your basicly i spose renting it.


Dave
Dave.

Grafters Cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1287
Re: van leasing
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2007, 07:21:07 pm »
if leasing a van for business use then yes it is tax deductable if how ever you are using it for domestic and pleasure then it would not be 100% deductable.

i think it would be up to ir to prove that you don't just use it only for work (as in my case, i only use it for work and use my car for d&m)
JAY "GRAFTERS"
From Southampton
www.high-shine.co.uk

Wayne Thomas

Re: van leasing
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2007, 08:06:38 pm »
If you lease a van you make 36, 48 or 60 monthly payments according to the duration of the lease. After the lease period you have the option to continue leasing the van at a cost of 1monthly payment for the following 12months use and so on and so on......

You can't buy the van outright.

When you sell it you have to pay the VAT from the sale to the taxman.

Lease payments are 100% tax deductable.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8434
Re: van leasing
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2007, 09:05:48 pm »
Hi

A lease is a monthly rental. The van and/or the equipment you lease belongs to the leasing company and you rent it from them.
The van is registered to the leasing company and it never becomes yours - its never registered to you.
In essence all leases are viewed as assets on your books. Rental vehicles and those on hire (Contract Hire) are not and the full monthly rental is subtracted from your profit and loss account.

At the end of the contract the van returns to the leasing company and provided you have upheld your side of the deal, ie stayed within any mileage restrictions and return the vehicle in a satisfactory condition - fair wear and tear considered, you have no further claim to that vehicle.
As such the total rental is 100% tax deductible as it isn't an asset on your books. (Private use of the vehicle then needs to be calculated in the normal way.)

There is also another lease which is sometimes called a finance lease and the monthly payments are designed to clear the value of the van to zero by the end of the contract. At the end of the contract you are responsible to sell the van and what ever you sell it for is for your back pocket to use as a deposit for the next rental. The 'profit' you make in this instance is taxible. This type of lease is used for builders (usually vehicle destroyers), taxis and couriers (high mileages). To further reduce monthly payments some leases have a final balloon payment, so your business needs to be able to afford that final payment blow if the valve of the van is less that the final balloon payment.

It differs from an HP (sometimes called a purchase lease) contract where the van is registered in your name and this becomes an asset in your books. As such is value is written down annually against tax - ie 40% in the first year and then 25% each year afterwards. (You can't claim your monthly payments, but there is a concession with regard to the interest portion of the loan.)

There are several variants to the leasing scenario but the basis is a rental based on the original purchase of the van and an anticipated value (residual value) of that same van at the end of the lease period with that preagreed mileage. A van doing 10k annually would be worth more than a van doing 25k annually, so the monthly payments would be less on the lower annual mileage.

In the old days the finance houses would never finance the VAT element of the van purchase price - assuming that a VAT registered company would claim that back, and would also require a 10% deposit of the purchase price of the van before VAT. So buying a van for none VAT registered businesses would mean quite a cash outlay. Leasing a van would reduce that outlay as the usual terms profile is 3/35 or 3/47. First payment is generally 3 times the monthly payment over 3 or 4 years + VAT.

You have to go into any leasing deal with your eyes wide open. You are tied into a contact for that period of time and trying to get out of it early can prove very expensive - rule of thumb was about 6 months rental in the early stages of that deal. Finding the van too small can be an expensive mistake. Closing the business or going bankrupt is not looked on favourably either.

Rectification of any body (including holes drilled in the floor to secure equipment) and/or mechanical damage accessed at the end of the contract is for your account, and you will be required to service the van at a recognised service outlet to the manufacturers schedule during the rental period. Failure to do so could also prove costly. You will find that BT and British Gas leave the shelving etc fitted to their vans behind at the end of the contract, as the repairs are more costly that the second hand value of the accessories. You will also need to Fully comprehensively insure the van for the contract term as well.

Look on the www.peugeot.co.uk wedsite, click on Services & Finance tab, then Fleet, then Finance Your Fleet. On that page you will find a complete rundown on all business finance, pros and cons and tax implications. It's invaluable.

Spruce
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Wayne Thomas

Re: van leasing
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2007, 09:30:13 pm »
Hi

A lease is a monthly rental. The van and/or the equipment you lease belongs to the leasing company and you rent it from them.
The van is registered to the leasing company and it never becomes yours - its never registered to you.

At the end of the contract the van returns to the leasing company and provided you have upheld your side of the deal, ie stayed within any mileage restrictions and return the vehicle in a satisfactory condition - fair wear and tear considered, you have no further claim to that vehicle.
As such the total rental is 100% tax deductible as it isn't an asset on your books. (Private use of the vehicle then needs to be calculated in the normal way.)

There is also another lease which is sometimes called a finance lease and the monthly payments are designed to clear the value of the van to zero by the end of the contract. At the end of the contract you are responsible to sell the van and what ever you sell it for is for your back pocket to use as a deposit for the next rental. The 'profit' you make in this instance is taxible. This type of lease is used for builders (usually vehicle destroyers), taxis and couriers (high mileages). To further reduce monthly payments some leases have a final balloon payment, so your business needs to be able to afford that final payment blow if the valve of the van is less that the final balloon payment.

It differs from an HP (sometimes called a purchase lease) contract where the van is registered in your name and this becomes an asset in your books. As such is value is written down annually against tax - ie 40% in the first year and then 25% each year afterwards. (You can't claim your monthly payments, but there is a concession with regard to the interest portion of the loan.)

There are several variants to the leasing scenario but the basis is a rental based on the original purchase of the van and an anticipated value (residual value) of that same van at the end of the lease period with that preagreed mileage. A van doing 10k annually would be worth more than a van doing 25k annually, so the monthly payments would be less on the lower annual mileage.

In the old days the finance houses would never finance the VAT element of the van purchase price - assuming that a VAT registered company would claim that back, and would also require a 10% deposit of the purchase price of the van before VAT. So buying a van for none VAT registered businesses would mean quite a cash outlay. Leasing a van would reduce that outlay as the usual terms profile is 3/35 or 3/47. First payment is generally 3 times the monthly payment over 3 or 4 years + VAT.

You have to go into any leasing deal with your eyes wide open. You are tied into a contact for that period of time and trying to get out of it early can prove very expensive - rule of thumb was about 6 months rental in the early stages of that deal. Finding the van too small can be an expensive mistake. Closing the business or going bankrupt is not looked on favourably either.

Rectification of any body (including holes drilled in the floor to secure equipment) and/or mechanical damage accessed at the end of the contract is for your account, and you will be required to service the van at a recognised service outlet to the manufacturers schedule during the rental period. Failure to do so could also prove costly. You will find that BT and British Gas leave the shelving etc fitted to their vans behind at the end of the contract, as the repairs are more costly that the second hand value of the accessories. You will also need to Fully comprehensively insure the van for the contract term as well.

Look on the www.peugeot.co.uk wedsite, click on Services & Finance tab, then Fleet, then Finance Your Fleet. On that page you will find a complete rundown on all business finance, pros and cons and tax implications. It's invaluable.

Spruce

Spruce:

That's the best and most accurate advice I've ever read on this forum. Obviously you have leased or HP a vehicle before or at least looked into it and remembered all the details right down to the small print :)

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: van leasing
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2007, 09:39:13 pm »
Thankyou Spruce,so in short your telling me that if tomorrow i go out and lease a van i can claim all those monthly payments off of my earnings,with no catches.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8434
Re: van leasing
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2007, 09:47:57 pm »
Hi Wayne

I worked in the commercial sales division of Citroen for 6 years and finance was part of most deals, so I had to have an accurate understanding of each of their advantages and disadvantages.

One of the things to remember about leasing is that what's right for a customer this month may not be right next month.
I always suggested that an accountant be involved as he will understand that customer's business better than I.

Whilst my days in the motor trade gained me some valuable experience, the stress of higher and higher sales targets and long hours did my health no good at all. Don't earn as much now but are far better off generally.

Rgds

Spruce
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Spruce

  • Posts: 8434
Re: van leasing
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2007, 10:04:31 pm »
Hi NWH

In a nut shell, yes (less your private mileage calculation). But remember that the tax man can change his mind and move the proverbial goalposts at any time.
The cons to leasing are the long term commitment you have to that vehicle and finance house. They have all the control over you which IMO is less with an HP deal. Leasing is a business decision and never an emotional one.

About 8 years ago the lower new car and van prices hit the leasing market as the residual value of vehicles being returned were higher than the new readjusted market value of that vehicle. The finances houses tried to bill customers for every blemish on the return vehicle to try to offset their losses.

Please look at the Peugeot website and look at the pros and cons of each finance offering.

Best regards,

Spruce
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

austin

  • Posts: 104
Re: van leasing
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2007, 10:11:09 pm »
so nwh i would say i am right smart arse thanks for your advice

Spruce

  • Posts: 8434
Re: van leasing
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2007, 10:17:06 pm »
Hi NWH

Sorry - forgot to add.

Leasing (Rental) payments come off your bottom line at the Profit and Loss level, along with all other business expenses, ie fuel, WFP parts etc.

Rgds

Spruce
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)