[Tosh]

Dazza,

Not long after we started window cleaning Wor Lass and I were heavily threatend by two idiots (father and son) who even intimated a threat towards our Little Un.  They said they knew which school she went to!  This was face-to-face outside a Tescos car park.

Of course I wanted to go 'Geordie' on them, but was restrained by Wor Lass, the thought of bricks through our window, and getting kicked all over the place; so we called the police who were okay, but it still put a real downer on us.

I think that was our worst month ever in window cleaning; we didn't leaflet; nor did we do much work, money was tight.  We weren't scared, not really, it was just a real downer; what a crap job?!  I must admit I did carry a 'tool' in my pouch after that for a while; couldn't sleep and wanted to take 'direct action' big style.

I/we got over it though.  The window cleaner who threatened me doesn't clean windows anymore; I haven't seen him in years now (I'm pretty sure he's a 'druggie').

The rest of my local window cleaners are great; there's Ian_Giles, Squeaks, Tommo, John_H, another John, Matt and Ollie, Simon G, Terry P, and even though some of 'em don't like each other 'cos they've poached accounts from each other; we still all pretty much a friendly bunch, or at least maintain a professional 'stand off'.

Dazza, if you're new to window cleaning and an established window cleaner feels threatend; take it as a compliment.

[Neil_A]

 (father and son) who even intimated a threat towards our Little Un.  They said they knew which school she went to! 

This is just pushing the boat out to far! Out of this world... They must be a right pair of useless worthless scumbags... Makes my blood boild just reading it   

[cvdewsbury]

yes there are no rights for window cleaners to own certain areas but when you have bought a round for example,the seller often states...
i am selling you this part of the estate ,i have been cleaning it for the past 5 years,the other part of the estate is cleaned by john smiths window cleaners and we have our own defined areas...ie if a customer asked me to go on his side i wouldn,t i would contact j smiths and pass the job on to him,he would also do the same for me.
i would never canvass any established estate were the windows are clean..iWHATS THE POINT EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THERES PLENTY OF WORK TO GO ROUND.In my area people work together not against each other. c***s tricks like that peoples front teeth could be unloosened  BUT fairplay on new build estates all the business is up for grabs

[davids3511]

So what happens if some of your customers are not happy with you , your attitude or the job you do? Just because you 'think' they belong to you, they don't actually and no amount of loosening front teeth will change that.

The problem with playing dentist is that you will eventually come up against one better than you who will put you out of action for a few months while they take your round over.

What about established estated where the existing cleaner is complacent, too busy or just lazy? Do the people there have to put up with it because cvdewsbury has decreed it so and that the way its going ot be or its into the dentist chair for you?

[davids3511]

And to address your point of buying a round. You are buying the customers goodwill, not a license to be the exclusive cleaner in an area. If that goodwill is worth anything, no amount of canvassing by another will hurt that and that is why up to 5x is asked sometimes.

However, if your goodwill is not as solid as it should be, then instead of trying to be a tooth remover you should maybe look at why the goodwill is no longer there. Reappraise your business model, your approach, your attitude, your look and so on. If you ignore the problems with customer satisfaction and loyalty, some big boys are going to come along who you can't frighten off and take it all away.

[mark dew]

yes there are no rights for window cleaners to own certain areas but when you have bought a round for example,the seller often states...
i am selling you this part of the estate ,i have been cleaning it for the past 5 years,the other part of the estate is cleaned by john smiths window cleaners and we have our own defined areas...

cvdewsbury, if a person has bought a round with that type of guarantee then they have been blagged good and proper.
There is no way anyone can tell if this house or that house has a window cleaner, some windows might look clean but i could only ever tell by getting close up and staring at them. Every estate has at least 1 window cleaner and most have several, but there is no estate where all the houses have a window cleaner.
Why do people think they have automatic first rights on customers who don't yet have a wc just because they have a presence in the area???
That is human nature at its worst.

[davids3511]

Hi Windowwashers

I agree it is getting out of hand but unfortunately for me that is the reality at this moment. I have put out about 500 leaflets since I started, have picked up about 30 customers, every single one of which didn't currently have a cleaner yet both I  and my wife have been threatned to back off by two different window cleaners both of which make threats from hidden numbers.


As for 'we are hear for window cleaning' well, I think this seems to be an integral part of it.

[davids3511]

Hi

Yes, I agree. What I try to do is introduce myself to any window cleaners I see when I am working and assure them I am not after stealing their customers nor am I going to undercut them. The face to face reaction is usually positive, the worst so far was one guy who obviously wasn't impressed but remained polite.

It's the phone bullies that get me going but like I said in an earlier post, nothing worth doing is easy.

It reminds me a little of Duncan Bannatyne, in his early days a rival ice cream van tried to bully him out of business. He went straight after the guy who backed down and off Bannatayne went on his way to his £170m. Not that I am saying I am another Bannatayne, just that everything worthwhile has its problems to be overcome.

David

[Wrekin C S]

Like I mentioned earlier I am building my new business and am thinking of leaflet dropping my own estate I know of 3 window cleaners on my estate 1 of which lives a stones throw away literally - Before I do the drop do you think I should knock his door and have a word with him explaining that im not undercutting or stealing work but just looking for new business and if I put a leaflet through 1 he cleans to not worry im not poaching! What do you think he's response will be - will he apprieciate me knocking his door or get the hump?

Thanks
Andy

[williamx]

What you need to remember is that you are in business to make a living, so if you cannot go hear or there or anywhere else because someone is already trading on that area then you will go very hungry.

There are "no go areas" if there were a hundred cleaners on 1 estate and you wanted to canvass that area then off you go and canvass.

As for pricing, before you start a business it is wise to draw up a "Business Plan" this shows how you intend to trade, how you will get your customers also how much money you need to live on.  After all of these and other figures are worked out you will then know what to charge.

So after you have done a "Business Plan" you should have an idea what to charge to make sucessful business from.  If this figure is more than your competitors, then it is more, the same applies if the figure is less than your competitors.

Most cleaners who have been trading for years, treat their work area as their own back yard and because they have not had to canvass for new customers for years they get scared that they will lose all if some newbie comes onto their "patch".

When  wfp cleaning started most trad cleaners didn't give it a second thought and many thought it was a fad and would go away soon, alas for them it hasn't, instead it has allowed more people who would never have taken up a ladder and clean into the industry, this is good news especially for people who couldn't get a cleaner.

In all the other trades were cash paying customers are the normal way of earning a living (Ice Cream Sellers-Taxi Drivers-Burger Vans etc) there have been the ugly element, these "chaps" are the same you use to have at school, they were scared, inmatured bullies who would ether cry or stamp their feet if they didn't get their own way.

They will not go away but they also know that at the end of the day the can't threaten "everybody" they know that some will make a stand, then you will find their true colours will show and they will go away.

For those who are new to the trade and this topic is putting you off the trade, I would like to welcome you and say, there are thousands of cleaners on this forum and others who are only to willing to help you with any problems you might have, so don't be put off by 1 or 2 bad apples in the barrel.

[cvdewsbury]

20 yrs ago when i started my window cleaning career there was an unwritten  rule that people purchased a round,got on with other window cleaners and stayed on there own patch thats how it worked.............re the teeth loosening part of it,ive never had any fisty cuffs with anyone,as you find out if you do a good job,keep your price reasonable, get on with the customer and build up that trust  the customers don,t want to  change..

Finally if one of you canvarses leaflet someones street and get one customer would you go back to clean it cos surely  can,t be a finacially worth it ?

[henryroberts]

unwritten rule dont canvasse other peoples work if u havent got enough 2 keep you going buy some  work dont do the dirty you wouldnt like it

[Sanity]

unwritten rule dont canvasse other peoples work if u havent got enough 2 keep you going buy some  work dont do the dirty you wouldnt like it

So, how do you know where is 'other peoples work' and where isn't?

As I have said, until the government introduce licences and allocate certain areas, I will canvas where I please.  If the customers are happy they will tell me they have a WC and I will bid them a good day.  If they are not happy, I might get a customer.

Moral of the story?  Only those who may not be keeping their customers happy have anything to wory about others canvassing 'their' patch...

[davids3511]

What a load of utter crap, these people that keep going on about unwritten rules. What you really mean is that you want a rule that says no matter how crap/expensive/unorganised/unplesant/late/poor workman you are, you think nobody should have a right to canvass your customers. If this was really how the world worked we would still be in the stone age because the neanderthals would still be running the show.

Also, the problem with there so called unwritten rules is that everyone has a different take on them, if you take them all into consideration you can't fart without a local windowcleaner meeting and a reading of the unwritten rules to see if you are contravening any. Most seem to be made up or embellished on the spot anyway.

If I seem to be getting frustrated, I am. I can't believe the drivel some people are coming out with. How is it doing the dirty to not take any other window cleaners current customers and not undercut. Once you stick to those 'unwritten rules' all is fair.

[andyp]

everybodys got different ways of looking at some firm windowcleaner coming onto "there patch" i bought my round and build it up putting alot of unpaid work in i.e pricing jobs etc thats personally why i dont like it.

ive have canvassed a couple of times on new houses and when i knock i would say do you want your windowscleaned blah blah and if there said ive already got one id say ok thanks for your time.dont mind that but when people undercut aaaaarrrrrrrrrr

question:why would you want to canvass an area/street/house knowing that its already getting cleaned?

no silly answers

[cvdewsbury]

 aup andy ..only answer i can give you to that is there must be a shortage of dentists within their vicinity

[henryroberts]

if people r unhappy with the work they will get another cleaner if i was unhappy with my gardner id get rid of him and find someone else .i get many leaflets through the letter box 4 gardners all i think is there desperate 4 work id rather get one through word of mouth like 50% of my work.just sad people canvasse other peoples work

[davids3511]

I take your point about a single house but how can you know a whole street or area is getting cleaned. If I knew a house had a cleaner, I wouldn't waste my time putting a leaflet in the door.

I don't accept the 'you only have to look at the windows' answer to that. They can look ok for months without a clean.

I don't understand the 'putting alot of unpaid work in'. Do you work for someone else or are you self employed? If self employed, that remark makes no sense as you are out touting for business. Actually cleaning the windows is only part of the job.

[Neil_A]

just sad people canvasse other peoples work

Some1 please tell me i read this wrong... HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THERE IS A WINDOW CLEANER In A STREET? 

The window cleaning market is FREE , FREE for all window cleaners to gain work where and when they please..  How are people sad for gaining customers in areas that other window cleaners clean... when you put a leaflet through some1's door you are keeping that persons options open for when they do need a new cleaner.. or maybe they dont have one..

What a stupid comment

[davids3511]

@ HENRYROBERTS

That's great for you, you are already on a round. What you want is for it to be impossible for others to get on one.

If you are trying to get into the industry, how are you supposed to pick up customers by word of mouth?Don't say 'new builds' because with existing window cleaners and new window cleaners going for them, you would take a long time to build a round you could live off.

All these unwritted rules seem to benifit only the existing window cleaner. Why isn't there one that says any new build estate cannot be canvassed of leafletted by an established window cleaner to give new blood to the industry? Seems some of you guys want your bread buttered on both sides.