[m.b.s.]

hi alex just one question tonight when i turn my flow valve off my pump turns of then it starts then stops sometimes it will turn straight off sometimes it wont it sounds as if it is stuttering when it starts up again after i turn off my valve also have a good weekend off

[Neil Williams]

Are you and Alex having some kind of affair?
Either fit a varistream or a flow back to tank

[m.b.s.]

just trying to save money also alex is a good man to deal withe you get a straight answr from him

[matt]

if you have a look at the pump box thread on the DIY forum, you will see how to make a by-pass setup, it just means some of the water returns back to before the pump, thus stopping the pump from cycling

[m.b.s.]

thank matt

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi m.b.s

To start with, it's nothing to worry about.  If it doesn't bother you it probably won't bother the pump.  However, if you would like to get it sorted and it is a Flojet pump then the following extract from our website should help you:

Once you have set-up your system as above you will then be able to 'fine-tune' the pressure switch on your pump (this is not always needed). On the Flojet pump you will need to remove the square plastic cover from over the 2 orange leads, in between the connectors you will see another cross head screw. This screw controls the sensitivity of the pressure switch, tightening the screw increases the pressure at which the pump switches off, loosening the screw will lower the pressure at which the pump switches off. To see if you need to adjust this screw plug your hose reel in (both if using 2) and connect your pole (both if using 2) turn on the pole flow and the pump will start pumping. Turn off your pole flow and if the pump turns off within 1-5 seconds then you do not need to adjust it, if it takes longer then you will need to gradually loosen the screw so that it turns off within 1-5 seconds. Turn on your pole flow again and the pump should start again, now you will need to check that you have not reduced the pressure switch by too much. Your pump should be running constantly with the pole flow on if it cycles (turns on and off every so often) then the switch is set too low and will need tightening gradually. Using this method will ensure that your pump and switch are set to match your system. This will not need doing with all set-ups as some pumps/pressure switches will fit your system set-up as standard.©

[matt]

Alex

does this mean the pump doesnt cycle when the flow is stopped ( thus no burnt out pressure switch ) ?? ??

i know Jeff B mentioned he was speaking to a pump maker and they mentioned this

[Alex Gardiner]

Morning Matt

Yes it does mean that.  The set up that we use means that when the pump switches off, it switches off.  It only switches back on if you want it to and sometimes it will pulse back on for a second or so if you've got leaky connections on your hose reel which slowly loses pressure (this only will happen every quarter of an hour or so).

[matt]

thanks for the reply

so that does away with the "electronic flow controller" and "by-pass setup"

[Alex Gardiner]

Exactly.

We have always kept our set-ups very simple and as a result they are more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

It does help if you have a balanced hose/pump/jet set-up as well. As stated in an extract from the same section on our website:

Matching Pump to Hose to Jets.

This is a simple technique which means that you couple together the right specification products to match the output of the pump.

Basically the following setups will be matched allowing you to use just the pump with no form of electronic switching control or external bypass system.

Flojet 60psi pump, with 60 metres of Microbore, 6mm ID pole hose and twin 2mm jets.

Flojet 100psi pump, with 1 or 2x 100 meters or 2x 60 meters of Microbore, 6mm ID pole hose and twin 2mm jets.

Both of the above set-ups will provide a perfect flow rate for WFP work. By either using a control valve on the pole or the end-stop on the hose you will be able activate the pressure switch on the pump when you wish to stop the water flow.

Hope that this is of interest.

[brightnclean]

thanks for the reply

so that does away with the "electronic flow controller" and "by-pass setup"

Sorry to disagree with Alex here but in fact no it doesn't unless you want a fixed flow rate all the time. Basically Alex's method will work in that it will prevent the pump from cycling but then it's a case of you get what you are given in flow rate because it is then fixed to a certain amount all the time. You cant increase or decrease the flow.

I prefer the electronic flow control way myself because it does a lot more than prevent pump cycling. I can set whatever flow I like up to the pump max. I can still use an on/off tap on my hose (Alex's method allows this) My pumps are only ever working as hard as they need to so pump life should be maximised and the amp draw from my batteries is directly related to the flow I set. I normally only draw around 3 amps from my battery on a decent flow rate instead of around 9 so I get max life from my batteries or I could use a smaller battery on say a trolley system so any DIY'ers buiding their own trollies could use a far lighter battery with an electronic flow controller than without one.

[matt]

but why not fit a inline tap on ypur hose to set the flow rate ?? ??

[brightnclean]

but why not fit a inline tap on ypur hose to set the flow rate ?? ??

Simple Matt.

It will cause the pump to cycle and eventually burn out the pressure switch even with Alex's method. Think about it. What Alex does is to set the pump pressure switch activation to a particular set up. You then have a fixed flow rate. You cant increase it and decreasing using an inline tap will cause back pressure in the hose and the pressure switch will cycle. I much prefer to set my flow rate to whatever I want it to be for a given job. Say a really dirty fist clean = more flow. A quick maintenance clean = I can turn the flow down.  Full sunlight.. a bit higher flow etc.

[Alex Gardiner]

There are some set-ups that will benefit from some form of electronic control and some people who feel that they benefit from them, no two people or systems are ever the same. Commercial Van-Mount systems tend to be built with them as standard as they can 'idiot proof' a new system for a the user (hence less customer support needed). Our Van-Mount systems are built with them on for just this reason.

To have a truly adjustable flow rate you would need to use 1/2" hose instead of microbore, then you could in effect increase the flow rate. You will never, even with a 'flow controller', be able to increase the flow past your maximum system rating.

The one advantage of a flow controller is longer battery life, as it controls the speed at which the pump spins, hence prolonging the life of the battery. If battery life is not a critical factor in your set-up, then all it will really do is give you the ability to reduce your flow rate down. Personally I know what I like my flow rate to be and I stick to it. I can occasionally reduce it for short periods of time with my pole control valve. Does this put more strain on the pump? Yes, but they seem to be able to cope with it, after all, it is only the equivalent of putting a longer length of hose on the pump.

My first pump (60psi) lasted for 5 years of full time use, the second pump (60psi) I added to my system to make a twin pump system lasted for 3 1/2 years. Both pumps were then made redundant about 1 1/2 years ago as I now use just 1x 100psi pump to power both poles on 100 meters of microbore. The 2 original pumps are still fully working and are kept in the vehicle as spares.  The current pump has given good service for 1 1/2 years. All of the pumps have been run on my 'electronic controller' free set-up. My trailer system has 1x 100psi pump which has been used this way as well for 4 years.

One of our workforce has worn a pump out after 3 1/2 years.  It was a 60psi and was used to power 2 poles for that time for 5 days a week 6-7 hours a day.  In the end the seals and diaphragm went - we thought it deserved a rest!

I have just fitted my system with a new type of electronic control purely to test it out for the manufacturer. I will be able to tell when I next work how well it performs, but at the moment my system does not technically need such a device. With 2x 100 meters of microbore to power I think that I will just end up leaving the dial set to maximum, effectively eliminating the device!

[Alex Gardiner]

By way of an update on the trial of the electronic control unit.

The electronic control unit lasted for 6 windows before I took it out of circuit. Why? because it restricted the flow rate even when set to maximum (which by itself defeats the purpose). Using a balanced component system it really is superfluous to our needs. I can see the benefit perhaps for a single user who finds that they wish to restrict their water usage, but for us it was a waste of time and something else to go wrong.

[matt]

By way of an update on the trial of the electronic control unit.

The electronic control unit lasted for 6 windows before I took it out of circuit. Why? because it restricted the flow rate even when set to maximum (which by itself defeats the purpose). Using a balanced component system it really is superfluous to our needs. I can see the benefit perhaps for a single user who finds that they wish to restrict their water usage, but for us it was a waste of time and something else to go wrong.

thats the reason im yet to use 1, i had 1 built by a electroinics guy for me, i know him online and i asked him about DIY'ing them, he built me one for a really cheap price