[supernova77]

I can see where you're coming from but being rained off, car breaking down etc isn't the customers concern. All my customers are interested in is me coming round on a dry day, cleaning their windows to a good standard and charging realistic money.  I can't say: I'm going to charge you £40 because it might rain tomorrow and I won't be able to work. All jobs have inherent problems. With window cleaning it's inclement weather and vans or cars breaking down....equipment isn't an issue with trad obviously.

This is exactly the difference between viewing window cleaning as a business or a job.

You view it as a job... Which is fair enough if you want to view it that way. But, in my opinion to get the best out of it you have to view it as a business!

Andy

[simon knight]

Sorry Andy but that's not an answer!  Because you're asking me to read something into my reply to NWH that will answer my original question which was:

What's the difference between a job and a business?

You made the comment in the first place so I'd be obliged if you'd explain!

Thanks

Simon

[supernova77]

OK, this is just one example:

I can see where you're coming from but being rained off, car breaking down etc isn't the customers concern.

If you were running a serious business - Then yes the car/van breaking down, being rained off etc... would in an indirect way be the customers concern - And that's why I factor these things into my business and pricing.

There is no simple answer to what the difference is between a business and a job... Just little things like the example above.

Andy

[simon knight]

OK, so you call it a business and i call it a job...so what? We're both in to make a living...let's leave at that.

I'm logging-off and having supper....Bon Soir.

[neil100]

If your happy Simon on £25.00 an hour fair dinkum.

Contentment is a figure that you will never ever be able to put a price on. Their are Billioners out there who are not content with their lot in life. But their are millions of poor people who are equally discontent.

I have a Successful round that pays me more then £25.00 an hour. Their are more cheapo w/cleaners in my area then Good looking girls. Just because they are cheap does not mean I have to be cheap.

I am selling £200.00 of my worst work next week to a w/c thats just starting up. It will pay him £25.00 an hour when he masters wfp easy. The reson I am selling that work is I have too much work.

Since going wfp 20 months ago my work as increased by 40%. If squeaks and the other Harbingers of doom should be believed my round should be decreasing in size by a monumental amount.

How can you explain Where I am in areas against w/c that are cheaper then me by more then 50% that I am taking work of them. In every area I work I do the most work out of any w/cleaner their. Its not a case of ripping someone off. Customers are canny enough to know what other w/c are charging.

Its down to the service you provide, the job you do and the one last and equally important reason, YOU. Have you got the people skills to connect on a personall level with your customers. My freinds say thats where my round Succeeds. I can relate to all my customers and I know how to treat them well.
So its not just a case of getting a cheaper w/cleaner its a case of do they want to lose you.

Nel  

[D woods]

Great post Neil

[NWH]

Agree 100% Neil,the relationship with customers is so important,if they like you and most of all trust you they will always pay your price.

[tas]

£25 per hour £50per hour the only real price to charge is what you value your time at some shiners prefer lots of small jobs some prefer a few big jobs i say im glad with the jobs ive got and as long as your happy with wot you get then that cool

[tonyoliver]

i agree with all of you the reason you start this job is freedom ok but after twenty years  like me its a bind a millstone round your neck you be come the hamster on a wheel it goes round so fast you cant get off.....

pricing i went for the low price stack em high route and it nearly killed me
i worked faster and longer and still was so broke i could no even afford shoes for the little one even after a seven day week...........

i read the forum learnt and learnt from some of you guys and now turning the round buissnes around its slow hard and painfull.
 if you had been around ten years ago i would have been much better off mentaly and bodily and  with more sprit.
 
go for the cash but dont sell your pricipals  i have met money mad people they are not nice to know i have also met nice people who will never do well as they are tooo nice soultion  try somewhere in the middle there is something for all of us.
dont sell your selfs too cheap and dont sell out
i

[Paul Coleman]

Mark, I think you've clarified the situation.

Yes I am trad. Were I wfp then a job that takes me 1hr and I charge £25 would become 1/2 hr...still£25...onto the next 1/2hr job...again £25 ..thus 1hrs work = £50....

...I think this is where the confusion lay.

By the way what happened to Pauls posting?

Thanks for clarifying that.  It seems unbelievable to me now but I thought £15 - £20 an hour was pretty good barely three years ago.  I worked in isolation for many years without really discussing rates with other W/Cers.  Starting to communicate more, using this forum (and others), and switching to WFP have started to open my eyes to what can be achieved.

[williamx]

Simon

When was the last time you increased your prices? and how often do you do it?

[Sir Squeaky]

I doubt he will be that bothered as there are plenty more customers out there prepared to pay a good price for a quality job!
You just carry on building your low priced round and undercutting other window cleaners and you will end up with a round full of crap, and customers who will drop you the first time a cheaper window cleaner knocks on their door!!

Low priced round?
£20 for 20-25 mins work?

Will you please tell me how that is low priced.
I think most people will agree that's fairly high.

If you're going to argue and put people down, at least make some sense. :

[Sir Squeaky]

How can I have undercut if they ask me for a quote, then afterwards tell me I'm £10 cheaper?

Not my problem.
If he didn't overprice they wouldn't have asked me.

Squeaky,

Perhaps he wasn't overpricing? Perhaps you are underpricing?

Perhaps it took him an hour to do each house to a high standard, whilst you'll take 20 mins and do it to not as high a standard?

Andy

No, she was unhappy with his work.

That's why she wanted someone else, but she felt it was a ridiculous price too.

[Alex Wingrove]

OK,

i want into the debate which is going on, there are many views and sides,

But there is one thing you cannot deny, and that is money,  and who has it.

At the moment, things are ok...but sooner or later interest rates will rise again to curb people buying houses, because at the moment people don't have enough money, and also there are not enough houses,

its fine earning from 15-100 p/h that's only ok when the market can sustain it, remember back to 1935 i think when the markets crashed, who was it who gained? the rich, and who lost out? the poor, you could buy a car for the same amount as a loaf of bread, and the world has never really recovered from it.

If you have a choice or, Cigarettes alcohol, Drugs, and other such amenities, over having clean windows, what do you think will go?

remember the national avergae wage, before tax is 33,000 and year, thats 150 a day, anything over that your above average, i admit i am over average, i aim for 30p/h over the day from 8-4 including my lunch but thats only while people still have money in their pockets, once thats gone, so will we, and out exorbitant prices, we all have jobs we love, but don't forget the jobs we want to bin, have serverd us well, and i would put money on they are the ones who will keep you with a roof over your head when things get tight.

So the moral, have customers who are old and own their houses, and the rich, millionaire's who have inherited it.

Hope that makes sense

[Sir Squeaky]

remember the national avergae wage, before tax is 33,000 and year
Hope that makes sense

Except for that bit.

The national average is £21,000.

[groundhog]

Low priced round?
£20 for 20-25 mins work?

Will you please tell me how that is low priced.
I think most people will agree that's fairly high.

I agree your prices are far too high! you had better drop them before you get undercut!!!!

[Ian_Giles]

remember the national avergae wage, before tax is 33,000 and year
Hope that makes sense

Except for that bit.

The national average is £21,000.

If Squeaks is right on the national average being 21k, then as a self employed window cleaner, if you actually want to earn that much money then you are going to have to turn over at least 26k per year to achieve it.

Even if you are a trad window cleaner with lower expenses than a WFP one, you still need to achieve those kind of figures.
don't kid yourself that it is only pennies to run your business, it isn't.
As has already been mentioned, you have to take into account the fact that your vehicle HAS TO BE CONSIDERED A BUSINESS EXPENSE!
It matters absolutely not one jot that if you were employed by someone in some other job that you would still have a vehicle, in another job, a vehicle isn't a necessity, without one you would not be a window cleaner.

If your tax bill at end of year is only a few hundred quid then you are earning a pittance.

50 quid an hour sounds high doesn't it?...well, to most of us it does, and were you in a salaried job it most certainly would be, we are talking close on 90k per year salaried.
But if you are talking about averaging £50 per hour worked it is a very different thing indeed, way different.
Why even Squeaks himself is averaging not far of that per hour worked, close to a pound a minute for that job he has mentioned in this thread.
And he is being castigated for going in too cheap!!!!

I'll have to add more to this later...I agree that it is a good and well debated thread though!

Ian