[Davew]

is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.

[patwoods]

it is davew but it is safer and faster,but i find on cost that rubbers etc on trad method has its running bills but it makes you look after things more + if people see you spending a few ££ to do it safer they dont mind giving that bit extra rather than have the worry of someone on the ground in their property.

[colley614]

I think getting started is best done by trad, then going out and buying water fed pole equipment as when you don't have much work your equipment doesn't cost much to maintain i.e squeegee blades, scrims, microfibre and then when you have your round looking boxed off then going water fed and then building up again and replacing the moaners who would rather see some poor guy fall off his ladders rather than have a window cleaner drive off leaving windows wet.

One of the first houses on my round moaned for months about a window over a roof so I did it eventually just to keep the job but had warned and warned that the weight of my ladder might damage his guttering. Which it did, job lost but wasn't too bothered really as he was really grumpy and was saying things like " I my day we would have just walked across the roof." One day I said to him " Yeah good idea, I'll just phone my insurance company and ask how is the best way to walk along a roof without ladders." I got a frown for that.   

[patwoods]

good one colley,i just say yeh and in the old days in new york they just walked across beams 10 floors and more up without harness but that was then this is now.you only get one chance and i'm sure we all had those moments

[Russell Macdonald]

The best way is trad.

It's a skill you will always need in this line of work no matter.

Wfp is the way to go & i would say the 1st year is a learning curve that i'm glad is in the past.

No matter what anyone says trad will never die, there will be times when trad is the only option.

Not only that but the set up costs need to be met, with trad you will have a customer bass. Some of these you will loose but you need to get through the switch over period. Once set up & running the running costs are low in my oppinion.

Macc

[macmac]

is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.

If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy.

tony

[AuRavelling79]

good one colley,i just say yeh and in the old days in new york they just walked across beams 10 floors and more up without harness but that was then this is now.you only get one chance and i'm sure we all had those moments

Good one ... I had a custy say this sort of thing to me and  I said "ahh, the good old days, none of this health and safety legislation - I could bring my eight year old to work and send her up to clean your chimney and I could get my dad to remove the asbestos from your loft - all for half a crown! Bye bye!"

Am I too abrasive? My wife says I am!

[Jeff Brimble]

is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.

If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy.

tony

I completely disagree, its the diyers that set the targets that the suppliers strive to follow, one example is lightness. But for banging on the suppliers doors and demanding lightness nothing would have been done. The manuf. know they cannot compete in the market place with the diyers because the price is all ready rockbottom, so try to sell an upmarket, even rolls royce blah de blah product for loads of dosh. Its a simple brush on a stick with a pump.

[matt]

is costs, set up costs, running costs and most lately repair and replacement bills. Very expensive way to enter the trade.

If you listen to the right advise & the correct equipment (not always nessesarily the dearest) is purchased from the start then there should be only minimal running costs.
However, if you start diy'ing fishing poles, tesco brushes, jets & goosnecks from B&Q, pump boards etc then you can expect trouble. It's called false economy.

tony

rubbish

ive spent the total of 700 quid max in 3 and a bit years

this years running costs are =  60 quid so far

thats for --

2 of Jan 07

2 of unger pole locking clamps and inserts = £ 6.50


------------------------------------------

April 16

1 x 2.0m x 3 Pro Pole = £23.68
1 x Pole Cone = £2.50
1 x Angle Joint = £7.00
4 x 25ltr Barrel = £18.96 <--- brought incase i need more water in the hotter summer months ( not really needed so far )

i have a forum for costs on the DIY forum, and them posts are mine from this year

[Jeff Brimble]

Talking about the topic and reducing costs, you know you dont need to spend a lot of money for RO/DI systems either, for most situations just recycle rainwater. That falls on roofs, reduces your carbon footprint and  its cheap as well, the customers love it. You dont get much cheaper than FREE  But I am sure that some manuf. will diasagree

Matt, you have an excellent forum, How many members do you have ?

[matt]

Talking about the topic and reducing costs, you know you dont need to spend a lot of money for RO/DI systems either, for most situations just recycle rainwater. That falls on roofs, its cheap as well, you dont get much cheaper than FREE 

Matt, you have an excellent forum, How many members do you have ?

1080 members and rising

of course if any1 wants a link

<----------------- e.mail me

[matt]

on this subject

ive just ordered a unger angle and some GG3, but the GG3 isnt a WFP cost

[vwm]

this maybe not so much a draw back but a bit of advise . wfp can run your life for a while, trying to get it right spending hours playing with it working all the hours to be sure of the extra money as you may have spent abit and want to replace it. the first 9 mths for me has been a one big learning curve but i recon i am there for now , custies not asking questions no more. learnt were to place hose ect, which windows need trad work, working out the best posiable days work. knocking work on the head as there not worth doing. spending hours and hours on forums seeking good info its to easy to forget there are others around you and chucking extra cash around wears off after a while.

remember this what the point in having a successful business when theres noone around to enjoy it with .. you married your wife not the business

[mark dew]

There's been some good points made and i would like to echo those that say learning to clean traditionally is the way to start.
It's very hard work and a shock to the system for most entering wc, but until you learn how to deal with and overcome problems using trad methods you aren't really going to be equipped to offer an all round service.
Also, the posts concerning diy are valid.
They have set the benchmark for manufacturers to follow and because of diy'ers the costs have come down enormously which has benefited those that choose to buy a system off suppliers.
When you look at the replies to those posts asking wfp questions the majority of answers come from the diy'ers and we have those to thank for most of our knowledge gained on the forums.
There are some superb suppliers as well (we all know who they are), who have raised their game to accomodate the majority of us who want to buy parts and not just systems.
This wasn't the case as much when i 1st joined the forums. I never agreed with it but was amused to see matt getting slagged off for offering free advice by the people who had spent loads on systems.
It doesn't happen now, i'm glad to say. Matt and others defended their corners, refused to get bullied off the forums and they have been vindicated by how things have progressed.
I got sidetracked there.  
The biggest drawback to wfp for the time being is the customer who doesn't like change and will criticise your work as a reason to dump you instead of telling you they don't like wet windows and sills.


 

[matt]

There are some superb suppliers as well (we all know who they are), who have raised their game to accomodate the majority of us who want to buy parts and not just systems.
This wasn't the case as much when i 1st joined the forums. I never agreed with it but was amused to see matt getting slagged off for offering free advice by the people who had spent loads on systems.
It doesn't happen now, i'm glad to say. Matt and others defended their corners, refused to get bullied off the forums and they have been vindicated by how things have progressed.

  i only stayed because of the stuff people said, most of them didnt like the thought of WFP getting into the hands of the humble window cleaner who didnt have / want to spend silly money on a system

some1 once said " a working class hero is something to be "

it was john lennon and more recently james dean bradfield who aid it, incase any1 is interested

[macmac]

I still stand by my statement, as it is correct, but, i didn't mean diy' ing a system, but diy'ing the components of the system. If you run a diy website or are an inventor then tuff, like i say, buy correct from the start ( and again, incase you missed it) this doesn't mean expensive & you will soon realize the difference between an inventors/diy obsessive's ego & the real deal. No bu****t, no ego trip, just good advice, the CORRECT choice & you're away. now, that clears that up.
Diy your system, yes, Diy the components of the system, NO. Total false economy, just read this forum to prove my point!

tony

[Malcal]

The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole.  BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal

[macmac]

The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole.  BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal

This is why you still need to carry ladders, don't walk a mile to reach 3 feet.

tony

[Davew]

I still say the costs are high. If you follow Tonys advice and buy a carbon facelift your gonna shell out a grand just for a pole for *hrist sake! The diy route doesn't have to be false economy either. By using cheap fishing poles and light brushes has given me a selection of poles for different jobs that I like to use for much much less than a carbon facelift. No what I'm saying is that when going through my expenses there always seems to be parts constantly wearing out and being replaced. Pole hose, clips, olives, brushes, filters, resin, connectors, hosereels, microbore, snap connectors battery, battery charger, prefilters, membranes all not counting your initial start up costs.

[Paul Coleman]

The biggest drawback amongst many (about 1/4 of my work is poleable) is the hose. Having to drag 80M of hose over a garage roof to do 7 house backs not accessable any other way then having it wrap round bikes, pushchairs, patio sets, swings, barbeques, solar lights on sticks, patio heaters, steps, brick ends, in fact almost everthing. If only I could get the water to the brush without the pole.  BUT on the fronts of the same houses what a time saving wonder.
Regards Mal

I only have a couple of jobs left where I go over the top and down the other side.  Horror of horros - I work from a ladder at the back of those ones.  They're not really worth keeping so I will either have to up the price or lose them.