[simbo]

being at research stage into cc have got in touch with lots of machine suppliers eg alltec i think machine i favour sound good aqua 40 and good price instinct tells me starter packs are really not needed and expensive ie i might never need half the stuff and maybe would rather go on recomendation with regards to chems and buy as needed from various companys as i am only intending to do this part time to start and learn to do the best job first and a professional appearance for a fair price which is a different subject has anyone lease purchased before seems a good idea to start as intending to do other cleaning which will need some funding as well i am after a decent living not ripping off and more variety in work will get my ads out and then get equiptment once have bookings is this a good idea

[Dave_Lee]

Simbo,
I am sorry to say this, especially as I know a few lads who already contribute to this forum, have already gone the same way as you are thinking with regards to your choice of start up machine. However to be of any use to you, I feel that for one I have to give an honest opinion or none at all, and I know that when starting up, finance can be a real problem and its tempting if not the only option to go for a machine like the Aqua 40. This is my opinion and I know a lot of lads who been around a bit will agree - the Aqua 40 is not a professional machine!
Ask around the professional lads, and Im sure you will find that the vast majority would regard a professional portable to have - Twin 3 stage vacs, minimum 100 psi pump, and a larger solution and waste tank.
One thing I learned early on, some 25 years ago, was that apart from everything else - IMPRESS your clients with a professional looking machine and they get that good feeling as soon as you begin to set up for cleaning. The number of times Ive been to a job and the client has said " Oh, thats a big machine, the last guy only a small little box of a thing."
It might be hard to take but you will not look like a professional using an Aqua 40 or the like.
As I said I hope I havent offended anyone, but as has been said by another old pro - "Tell it like it is."
Dave.

[Dynafoam]

Simbo,

Good advice from Dave.

When starting out you need all the help you can get from training and equipment. A low-power machine is not going to produce the best result - especially in the hands of an inexperienced operator.

Your aim should be to not only retain every customer but to get as many referrals from each customer as is achievable. the better you impress the customer with your equipment, your professionalism and results, the closer you will get to that goal. Marketing is very much more than posting adverts and pushing out handbills and the best marketing is done in the homes of your customers.

[williamx]

I agree, when you start out you do need the very best machine that money can buy, don't forget these machine last for years with TLC.

You will be surprised that some of the equipment that comes with start up packages, you thought you would not need yet, do get used very quickly.

An Aqua 40 is ok if you are hiring them out, but they are inadequate  for the proffessional clean that most customers require.

But the most IMPORTANT equipment you will need is TRAINING

[Ken Wainwright]

Hey Guys

The Aqua 40 can be purchased new with 2 x 3 stage vacs and 100psi. As Dave quite rightly infers, a good starting point for a professional CC. As for 40ltrs? I rarely put more than 40L  in my Pro Plus at a time. The tank capacity, especially on your average residential job, has little bearing on the overall efficiency/logistics issue. If you are going to fetch and carry (say) 100L of H2O, then it makes no difference when you fetch and carry it.

As for the physical proportions of a machine, I must agree that size does impress the ladies. But as a lot of the less gifted amongst you have already found out, quality is remembered long after size is forgotton

Any newbie will have budget limitations when beginning a new venture. Especially if vehicle space is at a premium, and/or machine weight is a serious consideration, I feel that an Aqua 40 would be an excellent first machine choice.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[eclipse]

Surley it is not just down to how big and how powerful your machine is (i started with an aqua 40)
you could put the biggest and best machine in the world in the hands of an unskilled operator and the results will be poor and on the other hand you could put a 50psi single vac machine in the hands of one of our "clean it up gods" and the resuts would be fantastic in my opinion it is down to how good of a capret cleaner you are not how big or how powerful the machine is
it is down to the operator to and how good there attention to detail is

i hope you all agree

[Martin_Riley]

I agree with Ken  :The Aqua 40 comes with a lot of stuff that you only normally find on much more expensive machines. I have seen one working first hand when Neil Kelloway used one a while ago and thought what a cracking little machine. It should definetely be on any Newbies shortlist.
Martin

[eclipse]

Also to add to my point i have done quite a few pubs with aqua 40 which did mean a lot of refilling and emptying but i also used a v2 steammate with aqua 40 so i was not waiting too long for solution to heat up

[Michel Roberts]

At carpex last saturday at kens suggestion I went to look at the aqua 40. You can have it with two vacs  the same ones as are in the advantage and if you ask them they can put the same pump in as they put in the advantage. this means you can get the same power from an aqua 40 as you can from the advantage!

A much smaller lighter more compact machine. As Ken has said if a job yakes 12 gallons of water what difference does it make if you put 4 three gallon buckets all at once or 2 three gallon buckets in twice.

However apperances are very important, maybe not so much to us who use the machines but to our customer's who tend to judge us at least in part by the equipment we use. Big shiny boxes with lots of gauges and dials ect do make a very big difference. They should'nt but they do.

I myself am torn between these two machines(I also quite fancy the CFR 400 a lot despite having been warned off them by two nameless cleaning gods)

Michel

[Ian Gourlay]

Talking to Ken on Friday complaining about weight of my Dimondback. Remarked how I would like a lighter machine for wife or another Female Operative.

Suggested Aqua 40 as Kleencare machine only had one motor.

I think you used to be able to buy steempros Ninjas and Dimondbacks with one motor.

And Yes size does impress

Also quality of van

and any other toys. So To Give best clean ever and all that Jazz you need tools

But if youre sending missus out or other staff you meed to think about weight and H+E and elderly people somtimes feel safer with a female operative.

[Dave_Lee]

Hi All,
Good comments from all. The main theme of my comments , was to do with the machine power and its appearance. I stand by my opinion that it does not have the appearance of a Pro machine. As for the fact that it has the option of better vacs and pump, these come at extra cost, and if I was in the position Simbo is in, and agreed the extra pieces were neccesary, then I would go the whole way and get an Alltec Advantage or similar. I would even lease over a longer period to make the payments easier to manage than get the smaller machine.
Dave.

[Dynafoam]

I had not realised that Altech would upgrade the Aqua 40, but still find myself in agreement with Daves' two posts. Like it or not, an element of theatre can contribute to the customers' overall perception of the cleaning experience.

[Derek]

John

That has been said before..."All the World's a stage and we merely players"

When you think about it it is so true and in so many ways too

Derek

[Dynafoam]

Derek,

I'm just an old ham anyway 

John.

[Neil Gott]

"He was a very smart and pleasant man. He worked carefully and with a minimum of fuss. The results were excellent. I was very pleased all round, and thanked him for his service.

However, his machine was on the small side and I was not impressed by it. I therefore will not be using him again, nor will I tell my friends."

[Derek]

Neil

I wonder how many men have heard that ? 

Derek

[Dave_Lee]

Sounds like the comments of a man with a small machine, wishing he had one bigger.
Dave.

[scott.]

Hows about when you get a lot of jobs on the 3rd floor like i do chaps....the smaller machine is heavy enough to lug up there...if y,all wanna do your backs in before you get there, then thats your choice i guess.

[Dave_Lee]

Scott,
I used to drag my Cheyanne 3 and Pro Plus up lots of steps when hoses werent long enough to reach. Hard work and not ideal but if thats the only way you either do it or turn the job down, or as you suggest this is where a smaller machine may come in useful.
I knew my comments would wind some guys up (Not the inention) but Simbo asked for opinions and I gave mine. Your point in the circumstances you describe, I believe is a valid one.
I started out with a useless machine and a useless system (imo) using a hatchback car, but as professional domestic cleaning in my area was a relatively new thing back then in 1981, I was able to initially build my business up this way - as time has moved on and now theres lots doing it and people are more aware - I doubt you could do the same today.
Over the years I have tried to upgrade my equipment as soon as I have been able to, and always had one of the top machines, when using portables.
I upgraded from portables to a TM nearly two years ago and am very glad I did.
However My van and finances could only manage an entry level TM. This machine is fantastic and my clients are well pleased with the results. I have however got my sights set on a top of the range TM and much bigger van, just as soon as Ive paid for my existing ones.
I think if you asked a pro who has been around for more than, say, five years, and who still uses portables if he would swap his five year old Cheyanne, Pro Plus or Excel etc for a brand new Aqua 40 or similar as his main stay machine, his answer would be negative.
Everyone thinks they are doing a fantastic job, so do the clients, with better eqipment you can really turn the job on. I have a great repeat and referal business, this where the bulk of my work comes from. I am though, always seeking ways to improve the job and make it better.
Finally, for what its worth my advice to Simbo and anyone else about to start up, is start as you mean to go on, and start with the most professional machine you can possibly afford and if this means an Aqua 40 or the like - then forget it until you can get something better.
Dave.

[paul@ctcs]

A small machine thats fitted with twin vac's and half decent pump, heat, etc wont be much lighter than a bigger machine, tanks are just full of air when transporting after all.
 Another plus for a large portie, on most commercial jobs i just wheel it to the water source to fill, and to the draining area to empty so saying you still have to carry water to a big m/c in buckets just as often doesnt hold much water with me

Paul