[colley614]

Hi Guys,

I've been working with a guy thats close to retiring since I set out on my own at the end of November last year. Anyway he said that he would sell me some of the work at the end of the year as long as I didn't expect a fortune in pay whilst I worked with him. Now my round is sorted and I don't mind working with him as I do all the upstairs of his houses in a day and the rest of the week he does bungalows and shops and stuff. Now I don't really need his work well I find it hinders my weekly wage but I've stuck at it because he helped me out when I set up so I kept helping to show I am great full for helping me get going. Now the end of the year is in sight I think he has been trying to move the goal posts as to when he'll be retiring and I can buy some work. He is also expecting more days out of me a week as he is going on holiday and letting his round slip and expecting me to drop my work to help him catch up. But he isn't interested in using the new lad I've just taken on even though I run it by him that I would take a lad on and then drop the lad off instead of me working so I can crack on with my own work. Instead he wants me to leave the lad at home and work with him at least twice a week. I don't want to turn around and say sod this I'm off in case he turns around and lets me buy the work off him that I'm after. Which is good high level work that would help me convert fully to water fed. What would you guys do. Just say enough is enough or ask him out right as it seems its all for him and none for me now and I could do with seeing an end to this episode now as I've been a good worker for him and he hasn't really returned the favor apart from giving me a days work for the first couple of months whilst I was setting up even though really it did benefit him because he had more work than he could handle and didn't trust anyone doing it for him until his brother said I was a cracking lad and very trustworthy.

[Dean Aspects]

It seems as though you have lived up to your side of the deal and now he is taking advantage of your good nature

I think it would be best to have a word and get some definate answers as to a timescale as this could drag on and it is doing you no favours

It could be that the other guy has no intentions of passing on any work to you so if you just drop him and do your own work you have lost nothing

Go out and canvass for the better jobs cut out the middle man and save yourself some money

Hope this helps a little
Dean

[colley614]

Helps a lot mate. As I got raised on the belief that you shouldn't hurt other people's feelings and I've felt quite selfish about the whole episode. I am just getting to the point now were I can't do anything that he is pleased about but when I say phone me early in the week he phones Thursday. I say well I'm rushed off my feet to which he says well you did say you would do it. I've got loads on this month already like schools and other one off stuff which eat my weeks up and I've just had a phone call today from an estate agent as I was doing 3 communal staircases inside and out and they just phoned me and asked me to price a lot more up. So on a daily basis now I am probably getting about £50 a day in new work through and I'm not even in the directories I've paid for yet! 

[colley614]

I'm was expecting somebody to say that. Thing thing is it would probably work in my favor if I said enough was enough then he wouldn't cope and would probably phone me with the work

[colley614]

Yeah the deal seems stagnant now and even things like he was going on for weeks about getting a new knee so I said i'd cover his round and then he stopped talking about it

[Paul Coleman]

Always flog a willing horse. If you were a tosser he would have binned the work and handed it over to you. Because you are so good at taking the strain he can go on indefinitly, and why shouldn't he?

Cut your losses, you are not going to get that work, and he probably thinks that he got you started and your success is down to his guidance. Down the line you may hear him bad mouthing you as an ungratefull git, but you're going to have to live with that.


Stop faffing and get poled up. Don't worry about going in to debt

There is something in what you say.  It seems that Colley may be shooting himself in the foot by enabling the guy to delay his retirement.

[colley614]

Thing is since I've posted this thread I've been thinking I don't really need or want the work he has anyway once upon a time I would have paid a fortune for the guys work but now looking at it his round is 75% domestic were as mine is 75% Commercial and thats what I enjoy doing. I think I would be more sensible trying to get myself noticed by the companies I'm subbing off at the moment. I've got little bits of work off them here and there that is a nice little earner for me but if I could get myself seriously noticed by them then I think I'd get a wind fall of work from them and take me business to or even beyond the next level.

[pylofm]

Sounds as if you will just have to ask him to reveal his hand, if you cannot get the answers you need go it alone....Being nice is all well and good but in the event you do go it alone without his work...you are not exactly kicking him in the teeth are you?

Whatever the outcome it sounds as if you have been propping this chap up and also at a lower rate .......yes he has helped you out but with conditions...he is going to have to make his intentions clear for you to be clear on what these conditions will turn out to be.

Dave.

[colley614]

I know that whatever the turn out, it won't be good for me either way but I'm really thinking of calling it a day this week and just focusing on my sub contract work and getting my wfp pole together as fast as I can now.

[pylofm]

Good for you...get kitted up and then your future is in your hands...

Good night and good luck.

Dave.

[Tosh]

Colley,

At the end of the next day you work with this guy, ask him to go to a pub for a pint and a chat; or a cafe; somewhere neutral.  Tell him you've some stuff you need to discuss with him and if he presses you to discuss it then and there, refuse and get him in a nice relaxed atmosphere; it will also give him some time to mull over what you want to discuss.

I bet he already knows before the pints/tea are on the table.

You sound like the diplomatic type, so thank him for his help getting you set up, remind him of your original agreement and tell him your fears.

Then stop talking and listen.  You'll soon find out if this guy is good or bad and what you should do next.

[Ian_Giles]

You don't have to fall out with him, do something along the lines that Tosh has suggested, chat to him in a pub and explain that you are now too busy to be able to keep helping him out, and that by doing so it is now costing you lost income.

Tell him that your work has grown to the point that there are only a few of his accounts that you would want even if he did retire, and that to be honest, you no longer need or require to buy work.

If he's a decent guy, even if he doesn't like it very much, he'll understand.

There's a chap I help out occasionally, I cover his commercial work when he goes on holiday, I don't mind too much, when he fully retires I'm hoping he'll just offer me the work, it's only a handful of accounts really, but worth £100-£140 a week, which will be a nice boost
He's ill with prostate cancer at the moment, so at some point he may have to retire a little earlier than he had planned, he's 69 now and the treatment he is undergoing tends to wipe him out, if the medication works he should be in remission by this time next year, slow process, kind of depends how debilitating the treatment is as to whether he can continue to work at the level he is currently doing.

I digress...do your best to remain on good terms, but don't be afraid to stick to your guns...

Ian

[Dean Aspects]

All the above is good advice if you follow it  it should lead to a favourable outcome
Let us all know how you get on
Dean

[colley614]

VG window cleaners what I said was he said " When not If." Also I didn't say he wasn't a nice guy, which he is. I just wanted advice from some people on here as to what they would do in my situation. The point I'm trying to get across is that this guy said he would need me 1 day a week ( now he expects 2-3 days a week), every week so I asked him to call me Sunday night and let me know when he wanted me so I could plan my week. But he doesn't. I had a lengthy chat with him in the Pub after work one day in the beer garden saying that I was really busy and I was thinking of taking somebody on and training him up so I can use him to stand in for me instead of letting the guy I work with down. That day he said it was a good idea although I had to interview, employ, insure the young lad off my own back, which I did. Then the first day I started the lad and let the guy I work with know that the lad was on my books he said "Well I don't want him working with me, you'll have to come on your own." The Idea had gone full circle. My intentions were clear on the day and if the guy had told me the truth I wouldn't have employed just yet I would have left it until autumn. Can you see the point I'm trying to get across. A business relationship between to window cleaners should be a mutually beneficial affair, not one gives and one takes. 

[Dean Aspects]

You state you are picking up work at £50 per day at that rate and with the work you already have are you not better just going it alone anyway?

You also state that you are about 75% commercial that is a great achievement i have been in business alot longer than you and wish i could get that percentage of commercial
you appear to be doing very well with yourself and your employee i would be tempted to just go it alone unless the other work is work that you really want

Dean

[colley614]

Dean,

The main reason I am 75% commercial is that I worked for a major industrial window cleaning company from 2000 until the end of last year. In that time we only did local stores that were sub contracted into us. We never did sole trading stores or anything along them lines, so last year when I left the first thing I did was canvass all the local shops that I know of in villages out the way that I know were crying out for a window cleaner. I went from there really and I know there are a lot of local window cleaners slagging me for having the work I have already. One even said to me " You have built the type of round up most guys build up to and have just before retiring." Mainly shops and office building is what I built up from and its really helped me get going!

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

If you were to carry on working for this guy, then you'd have to up your daily wage.  After all if he's changing the terms of the contract to more than a year then you should change your daily wage.  Try and get something in writing as well.  I would personally pursue your own work though, sounds like your doing well with out him.

Simon.

[colley614]

Tip that I've learnt over the last few months is first clean make sure windows gleam then second time do frames and things like that as they can be really time consuming and a lot of people have had me do one offs making out it would be monthly

[mark dew]

It reads to me like you are being used.
He might be nice to you but he has little respect for you if he's phoning you up on thursday when you've asked for sunday.
Take the blinkers off and say no to him one time and see his response.
I'm at a loss to understand what type of high level work he has, that you need to convert fully to wfp?? 
Any upstairs work will be sufficient and you have this already.
Judging by your doubts it appears you already know what to do.
How much difference is there between what rates he is paying you and the rates you are earning on your own?
Multiply that by the amount of days you have given him and then see how you feel.
It might work out that by the end of the year you could have hired doorknockers or others for cheaper than what you are giving him with your time.
Also, you should bear in mind that he will probably want to sell you the work anyway.

[xxmattyxx]

Good point

Tip that I've learnt over the last few months is first clean make sure windows gleam then second time do frames and things like that as they can be really time consuming and a lot of people have had me do one offs making out it would be monthly