[macmac]

How are you getting on with WFP Squeaky? Do your customers seem to be adapting to it?

I'm happier using it (when it doesn't break down :).
Customers generally don't like it though.

I've got a few who say it's done a good job, and they're happy.
But at least 20 people have made a point of telling me they preferred the old way.

I reckon if all of them were honest and didn't just put up with it, about 80% aren't keen on it.

Squeeky, as a well respected member of this forum & very experienced w/c do you think it would be beneficial for me to do a post explaining how to clean wfp (sucsessfully) without doing the top frame & the most beneficial method for the majority of circumstances? It would take a big post & a lot of explaining so i wouldn't want to waste my time & of course, it would only be based on my experience. it's just that, i see post after post of what i think is unnessesary suffering from new & new'ish wfp'ers. i ask you as i respect your honesty greatly & think we are on the same wave-length (if that doesn't sound too suck-uppy).

tony

[Sir Squeaky]

Yeah, why not mate, if it's not too much bother.

I might learn a few things myself.

You do realise some people will argue with you though. :

[Sir Squeaky]

Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.

Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....

You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.

The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.

But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.

[macmac]

Yeah, why not mate, if it's not too much bother.

I might learn a few things myself.

You do realise some people will argue with you though. :

Other people arguing dont bother me squeeks, it's natural, i would expect it, we all do things different ways & i'm certainly not perfect. no doubt we all have ways that work for us, it's mainly to get rid of this blanket thought that you must clean all frames etc. I know that there are top frames that will clean perfect every time but IMO these are more rare than usual & also IMO 90% of bad results from wfp are born from cleaning the top frame. I just see so many problems on here, that i just dont experience with not doing the top (or any for that matter) frame. the problem is, it's so hard to explain in text.
Will think it out.

tony

[john tomkins]

Go for it tony, but chances are it will get lost over the months and folks will still argue over which way is best.
BTW I now use your method and don't find a problem, cheers from me at least  

[Pure H20 Cleaning Services]

Why are you waiting for the top frame to to dry? as long as you have brushed & rinsed it properly there won't be any crap left to mark the windows. Frames first then glass then a good rinse.
I don't know why so many cleaners are being negative about wfp, maybe its change they
don't like?
I expect you go home put a 78 on and watch a video.
Or maybe its the way you put yourself across explaining the new process to your customers?
When i changed over i had 120 houses and i didn't lose any, andi've had nothing but good coments from my customers. I also limit the number of houses i do in a day that way you don't have to rush and miss corners!

[chrismroberts]

Squeeky, as a well respected member of this forum & very experienced w/c do you think it would be beneficial for me to do a post explaining how to clean wfp (sucsessfully) without doing the top frame & the most beneficial method for the majority of circumstances? It would take a big post & a lot of explaining so i wouldn't want to waste my time & of course, it would only be based on my experience. it's just that, i see post after post of what i think is unnessesary suffering from new & new'ish wfp'ers. i ask you as i respect your honesty greatly & think we are on the same wave-length (if that doesn't sound too suck-uppy).

tony

That would be really, really helpful. If its not too much trouble? Thank you It won't get lost as I'll probably bookmark it!!

Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.

Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....

You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.

The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.

But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.

Thats what I worry about.... I currently share a lot of my round with a very cheap trad guy but my customers still stay loyal. One thing that bothers me is that they'll want them done trad AND realise they can save some money  Or maybe am just worrying too much....

Hope it works out OK for you... am sure so many wouldn't swear by it if it didn't have some advantages! 

Chris

[chrismroberts]

Anthony, I realised that as I posted LOL... if you wash and rinse the top frame thoroughly, then any muck from that will be washed off when you do the window below it?

To be honest, I love change and progress.... tis what keeps the world spinning... I just don't want to lose customers because my technique sucks!

[macmac]

Go for it tony, but chances are it will get lost over the months and folks will still argue over which way is best.
BTW I now use your method and don't find a problem, cheers from me at least  

 
Nice one john
If it helps one person & saves him all the hassle of the dark side then that's good enough for me. At the end of the day all we want is a clean window when we've done, how we acheive it doesn't matter. My method works excellently for me & i'm sure others would benefit also (with practice ofcourse, it's no mirracle).

tony

[NWH]

I never do frames unless they ask and then i say it will take me twice as long and therefore charge double for it,after all we would charge extra having to do it off of ladders.I`m with Tony on this one the frames DO NOT need doing in order to produce a top job,it`s only because that`s the way WFP has been sold to everyone saying that the frames being cleaned is a must,I have had no complaints and rarely do frames unless asked,i was a quick trad WC and if i did the frames with WFP on every house it would be hardly any quicker if at all.Cleaning in this way requires a rectangular shaped brush to stop you having to go off the glass,it`s also an art and requires more dexterity.

[john tomkins]

tony, when i first saw you post that you left the top frame(probably last year) I couldn't see how you could be accurate enough to stop splashing the frame, but changing to rectangular brush and pencil jets (previously oval brush and fan jets) made things so much easier to control accuracy and like you said "practice and you'll get there"

[macmac]

Hope it works out OK for you... am sure so many wouldn't swear by it if it didn't have some advantages!  
  

It has many advantages & the results should be perfect, BUT, to get to this stage is what the whole problem is. The problem of - wfp = instant millionaire, easy life, work done for 11am, customers gagg for it, my round is suddenly going to quadruple etc.etc. yawn, yawn, yawn. you know the score? :

tony

[macmac]

I never do frames unless they ask and then i say it will take me twice as long and therefore charge double for it,after all we would charge extra having to do it off of ladders.I`m with Tony on this one the frames DO NOT need doing in order to produce a top job,it`s only because that`s the way WFP has been sold to everyone saying that the frames being cleaned is a must,I have had no complaints and rarely do frames unless asked,i was a quick trad WC and if i did the frames with WFP on every house it would be hardly any quicker if at all.Cleaning in this way requires a rectangular shaped brush to stop you having to go off the glass,it`s also an art and requires more dexterity.

ditto, ditto, ditto, (tea & scones anyone?)

[macmac]

tony, when i first saw you post that you left the top frame(probably last year) I couldn't see how you could be accurate enough to stop splashing the frame, but changing to rectangular brush and pencil jets (previously oval brush and fan jets) made things so much easier to control accuracy and like you said "practice and you'll get there"

Wey, hey, at last, john you are my saviour. Keep up the SKILLED work

tony

[Davew]

I've got wfp purely for me not my customers. Why spend thousands for your customers benefit? It's to make my life easier. On paper it's financial suicide - why enter a trade where the start up costs are so high when you can do the same job with the same wages for next to nothing? Me Me Me

[NWH]

I don`t think you can earn the same working trad,if fact i know you can`t.

[Sir Squeaky]

I don`t think you can earn the same working trad,if fact i know you can`t.

Agreed, but you need extra work to make extra money, and it loses you quite a bit of work.

I'm making 30-40% more per day, but over the month I'm about 10% worse off.
It just means I get work done quicker, I've now got to fill an empty week.

Then I'll be better off.

[neil100]

Squeaks,

You should monitor how many customers you lose and gain. My nightmare when switching to wfp was customers on mass cancelling due to them not likeing wfp. That as not happened.

I hate it when I lose a customer, If i gain 10 new customers and lose one old customer It feels I am doing badly, as loseing a customer allways feels worse then gaining several.

When I switched to wfp 20 months ago I  wrote down on a sheet of paper (Sevreal Sheets)a column for New customers and a column for customers who cancelled.

17 months out of 18 I have got more new work then what I have lost. The one month that I lost more then I gained was only by £5.00.

Heres an example looking at my sheets April 06 LOST 3 customers worth £21.00, Gained 12 customers worth £158.00. Net total gain £137.00.

MAY 07 Lost 4 customers total £32.50
           Gained 18 customers Total £249.00. Net total gain £216.50

Now if I had not wrote them down I could swear my round was doing badly as I know how I feel when I lose a customer.

You need to canvass if you are loseing more then you gain, This applys to a trad w/c as well as wfp. Basic  economics. Your round must grow. Not only in size but in the profit you make.

My round is now at the point where I have enough work to say I am full, but I will allways take on new work, it will just take me longer to get round. I build the extra customers into my round, when I have between 5% and 10% Too many customers, I put up my prices and lose customers who dont want to pay. My round then increases in its profitability.

Or I sell odd work to a local w/c if I get to much.

Nel 

[Sir Squeaky]

Guess I'll have to canvas.
I hate the thought of going back to doorknocking.

It feels desperate, and like I'm going backwards 6 years or so.

On the subject of picking up work, apart from the small bunch Tosh gave me, I've picked up 2 in 4 months.
So no, I'm not gaining anything.

[Paul Coleman]

Whys that? They not happy with the results or just not keen on the windows being left wet? A bit of both.

Had a customer the other day say "are you not going to dry them off?" and when I explained it to him he sounded VERY skeptical. Only a £6 account every 2 months but if everyone starts then it might cause problems....

You're lucky, I've had at least 30 or 40 say that.

The results aren't always as good, I can see why they preferred it before.
They'll put up with it for now, because they know there's no way I'm going back up ladders now.

But as soon as they see another trad cleaner...I'm history.

I had something like a 5% turnaround in my customer base during the first couple of months of WFP.  That wasn't a 5% loss of work though because new people wanted me to use it due to windows that weren't really reachable the trad way.  Since then, some of the people who grumbled at first have since said that they do like the results and the others haven't said anything but I'm still with them nearly two years later so I assume it must be OK.  I suppose that some of my first cleans were a bit flakey because they were first cleans and due to inexperience.  I did explain that things would improve as the detergent film was gradually removed and as the frames got cleaner but I was only parroting what I read on here.  I wasn't totally convinced myself and maybe some of them picked up on that.
I think you might be in a similar position to me Rog - needing to get more work in to fill the gaps caused by working faster.