[Highrise]

When it comes to pricing a job regardless of what method you use, Trad or wfp, We as window cleaners should all price a job up by the use of trad methods..... We will all lose out if we undercut each other.... That is not good for any of us in this business. The only people that is making this game a bad name is Bill and Ben.....

[Pat Purcell]

Highrise, about 20 years ago we started out window cleaning using pure water
We had a team, of tele marketers and a few truck mounted systems, none of us had ever cleaned a window before but the technology seemed fool proof,It was a franchise so we had a little training in technique and off we went,
being honest we neither cared nor knew what the price would have been trad we just had a daily, weekly, and monthly target that we needed to get to
It didn't work so well to start as our windows don't set up very well for pure water cleaning and we had little experience but after we learned to do houses trad it went well and now we are completely trad having given up on pure water after about 10 years as again most of our windows are not suitable for it
My point is that, you dont need to worry about window cleaners driving the price down due to wfp ,but eventually some non window cleaners who dont know that a 3 bed semi should cost x in a certain area will price for their time and enough of these will eventually lead to lower prices

[Highrise]

Highrise if you are pricing up to use wfp you should be cheaper than a trad cleaner as you will be quicker and the results inferior. Who the hell are Bill & Ben?

I am not quoting up my price due to wfp cos it is quicker I am saying why should I reduce my price cos it is quicker.... Bill and Ben are the guys who clean windows and dont any taxes what so ever, do you what I mean...

[Pure H20 Cleaning Services]

Horses for courses Groundhog, the kind of windows it did work well on were the kind you have in the UK so Im not knocking wfp but I do think the only way to be 100% wfp is if you are  selective about the work you take on or are not too worried about the results

You say wfp cleaners ar'nt worried about the results! I see plenty of trad cleaners out there with there dirty bucket of water in the back of an old metro who really don't care what the windows look like after there effort.I went wfp 18 mths ago and have only lost one clean (they closed the pub down) WFP has come a long way over the years maybe you should  have a look at it again, that way you trad cleaners might stop thinking you are GOD!
Also when it comes to pricing my prices are the same as when i cleaned trad, so for the same money they get there frames cleaned, when cleaing a conservatory how many trad cleaners wash all the frames down and the guttering. It may be quicker using wpf but we have a lot more outlay than the dirty bucket of water brigade.

[Paul Coleman]

Myself I wish that these threads didn't keep turning into food for trolls.  Pricing WFP vs Trad is a valid area for sensible debate.
I feel that it is inevitable that WFP will reduce prices - at least on larger jobs and more particularly on commercial ones.  It might be a bit soon yet but as WFP becomes more mainstream it will have to happen.
It probably will make no real difference on medium size to smaller domestic as the time saving on jobs of that size is not as great.  But on larger commercial jobs the time saving is much greater.  Unfortunately, too many people do not consider their next large capital outlay (van/system/poles) when pricing jobs.  Business has become that way generally as it has become more competitive.  Also, it is much easier to obtain credit these days than it once was so the thinking is more about getting a loan for the next big outlay rather than trying to save for it.  I do that myself but I do try to factor in at least part of any future loan repayment when I price a job.  It means that my business grows more slowly as I am turned down more often on price.

[Ian_Giles]

I mostly agree with shiner on this, on most houses the time differential isn't great enough to make an impact on houses.
The larger the job is then the quicker you will be with WFP, and that WILL affect pricing.
Those that price cheaper simply because you are quicker than before are making a very big mistake.
For a potential customer to be able to do the job themselves, they would almost certainly have to work off a ladder, what will take a skillful and accomplished WFP window cleaner 10 minutes to do, will take them an hour to do, they won't do as good or as thorough a job and of course they will also find it very HARD WORK!

It's how much they think it is worth them to pay someone to do that job that is the important bit, and it's often far more than you think.
How quick you are should be immaterial to them providing you do a good job.

If you are daft enough to cut your prices then they will snap your hands off, and though you may well be quicker than before, all you are doing is increasing the amount of work you are doing and ending out earning less money than before.

WFP takes investment, continual investment, it's more expensive to run, why on earth would you potentially spend a couple of grand or more (frequently much more) and reduce your prices thereby ending out no better off at the end of the day once costs have been taken into consideration.

But this is a real danger for newbie's coming into WFP without any window cleaning experience.

Commercial will be affected I'm sure, not sure by how much though, but as the jobs can be much larger then a drop in price will still leave you better off than before...only time will tell.

Pricing? Try to stay much as you did while pricing up for trad work and you won't go far wrong.

Ian

[williamx]

I agree with Ian.

On the domestic side the prices should stay the same, you will get the hic-up affect when a newby starts up and moves into your area, but this wills settle down when they relise what other cleaners are charging.

What mainly dictates prices are Market Forces,  in the old days, there was only 1 type of cleaner, The Ladder Man, now there is the WFP Man/Women.

With wfp, a lot of people are looking at this as a way of earning a lot of money but without the hard work or danger associated with ladders.

The more wfp cleaners come on the market the more compertion we all face.  This will then start to effect the price of the larger contracts we all would like to get.

In 5 years wfp cleaners will be on nearly every street in the uk, ladderman will be affected by the increase of cleaners in their areas, they will still survive as there are always customers who only want a ladder cleaner and there are still windows were a ladder clean is the best and cheapest option.

The wfp cleaner of today will also notice the new wfp cleaners effect on their businesses, with more wfp cleaners on the market and all doing the same standard of cleaning, then the contracts will come down to price, which means the cheapest will almost certainly win in the end.

[steve m]

I thought you priced per window, not the way it was cleaned. Do I take it from the way the argument is going that we will all end up in a price war, trad vs. wfp, cos if we are I think this will be the end of trad w/c, cos wfp being cheaper will win the job every time

[williamx]

I thought you priced per window, not the way it was cleaned. Do I take it from the way the argument is going that we will all end up in a price war, trad vs. wfp, cos if we are I think this will be the end of trad w/c, cos wfp being cheaper will win the job every time

Steve

At the moment cleaners seem to charge as if they were cleaning the trad way, even if they use wfp which is faster on most propertys.

They can get away with this because there has always been a shortage of cleaners, so the customer has to pay the price or they won't get their windows cleaned.

With the further expansion of wfp onto the streets of the uk, you will find customers will find it easier to get a window cleaner and this will effect the price.

At first it will start of in the commercial sector were the price of the job and profit is higher, as more compertion come onto the market the price will effect who gets the contract. 

Next will be the domestic sector, I don't think that the average terrace house will be affected to much, but the larger size properties will be targeted.

The old ways of not poaching a fellow window cleaners customers will become a thing of the past.

The reason for this is, a newby starts up after spending a couple of grand, he then sees properties being charged say £25.00 per month per clean, he looks at this and works out that he can clean the same for £15.00 and still make a profit, what do you think he will now do?

In my opinion he will approach these customers with his price and promise of an excelllent job being done, the customer is facing more debt nowdays and the cost of living is growing faster than their income, which way do you think they will go.

Yes you will still have some loyal customers at first but at the end most will follow a cheaper price, especially if the standard of cleaning is as good or better than they are now getting.

For some time now, wfp cleaning has being overpriced, comparded to the amount of time it now takes to clean compared to the trad way, with more and more people coming into the industry, because the earnings are so good how long will these prices last?

There will be no war between trad and wfp cleaners, because each will find their own customer base, but there will be a price war.

[Paul Coleman]

I thought you priced per window, not the way it was cleaned. Do I take it from the way the argument is going that we will all end up in a price war, trad vs. wfp, cos if we are I think this will be the end of trad w/c, cos wfp being cheaper will win the job every time

Steve

At the moment cleaners seem to charge as if they were cleaning the trad way, even if they use wfp which is faster on most propertys.

They can get away with this because there has always been a shortage of cleaners, so the customer has to pay the price or they won't get their windows cleaned.

With the further expansion of wfp onto the streets of the uk, you will find customers will find it easier to get a window cleaner and this will effect the price.

At first it will start of in the commercial sector were the price of the job and profit is higher, as more compertion come onto the market the price will effect who gets the contract. 

Next will be the domestic sector, I don't think that the average terrace house will be affected to much, but the larger size properties will be targeted.

The old ways of not poaching a fellow window cleaners customers will become a thing of the past.

The reason for this is, a newby starts up after spending a couple of grand, he then sees properties being charged say £25.00 per month per clean, he looks at this and works out that he can clean the same for £15.00 and still make a profit, what do you think he will now do?

In my opinion he will approach these customers with his price and promise of an excelllent job being done, the customer is facing more debt nowdays and the cost of living is growing faster than their income, which way do you think they will go.

Yes you will still have some loyal customers at first but at the end most will follow a cheaper price, especially if the standard of cleaning is as good or better than they are now getting.

For some time now, wfp cleaning has being overpriced, comparded to the amount of time it now takes to clean compared to the trad way, with more and more people coming into the industry, because the earnings are so good how long will these prices last?

There will be no war between trad and wfp cleaners, because each will find their own customer base, but there will be a price war.

You may well be right but there is something you haven't allowed for.  That thing is trust.  Window cleaners generally have a bad reputation for being here today gone tomorrow casual workers.  Also the old stereotype of window cleaners being dishonest or even burglars is still more prevalent than I would like (though I feel that improvements have been made in this regard).  Many customers will be reluctant to switch even to save money because they know that their new window cleaner may not be around in a year.  They also don't know if he is a plausible conman.  A lot of people are happy to pay a bit more in the hopeful knowledge that their window cleaner will still be around for years to come and the assured knowledge that he isn't going to walk off with the family silver.

[steve m]

maybe its just me, but I do a good job for the price I charge. Where I live( yes it is in my profile, I wish others would do the same) the pricing is fairly low, for example a 4 bed detatched is about a tenner. If someone undercuts me and wants to do it for say, £8.00, he's welcome to it. So far most of the houses I do have had people door knocking trying to undercut me, I know all my punters tell me, but so far I haven't lost a single one. If your good at what you do, it doesnt matter what you charge (within reason) .

[williamx]

I thought you priced per window, not the way it was cleaned. Do I take it from the way the argument is going that we will all end up in a price war, trad vs. wfp, cos if we are I think this will be the end of trad w/c, cos wfp being cheaper will win the job every time

Steve

At the moment cleaners seem to charge as if they were cleaning the trad way, even if they use wfp which is faster on most propertys.

They can get away with this because there has always been a shortage of cleaners, so the customer has to pay the price or they won't get their windows cleaned.

With the further expansion of wfp onto the streets of the uk, you will find customers will find it easier to get a window cleaner and this will effect the price.

At first it will start of in the commercial sector were the price of the job and profit is higher, as more compertion come onto the market the price will effect who gets the contract. 

Next will be the domestic sector, I don't think that the average terrace house will be affected to much, but the larger size properties will be targeted.

The old ways of not poaching a fellow window cleaners customers will become a thing of the past.

The reason for this is, a newby starts up after spending a couple of grand, he then sees properties being charged say £25.00 per month per clean, he looks at this and works out that he can clean the same for £15.00 and still make a profit, what do you think he will now do?

In my opinion he will approach these customers with his price and promise of an excelllent job being done, the customer is facing more debt nowdays and the cost of living is growing faster than their income, which way do you think they will go.

Yes you will still have some loyal customers at first but at the end most will follow a cheaper price, especially if the standard of cleaning is as good or better than they are now getting.

For some time now, wfp cleaning has being overpriced, comparded to the amount of time it now takes to clean compared to the trad way, with more and more people coming into the industry, because the earnings are so good how long will these prices last?

There will be no war between trad and wfp cleaners, because each will find their own customer base, but there will be a price war.

You may well be right but there is something you haven't allowed for.  That thing is trust.  Window cleaners generally have a bad reputation for being here today gone tomorrow casual workers.  Also the old stereotype of window cleaners being dishonest or even burglars is still more prevalent than I would like (though I feel that improvements have been made in this regard).  Many customers will be reluctant to switch even to save money because they know that their new window cleaner may not be around in a year.  They also don't know if he is a plausible conman.  A lot of people are happy to pay a bit more in the hopeful knowledge that their window cleaner will still be around for years to come and the assured knowledge that he isn't going to walk off with the family silver.

Yes its true, you won't lose every customer, I have many who won't go to anyone else.

In the old days a window cleaner was considered a shady character, but what burglar is going to buy a new or nearly new van.

Have its signwritten.

Instead of the striped jumper and mask with a swag bag over his shoulder, he now has a company uniform with photo id.

He has informed the local police station and provided details of himself.

His equipment is new.

He is well trained and offers a total customer satifaction with his work.

The only difference is, he can and will clean your cutomers at a cheaper rate than you do, and with many customers now finding it harder and harder to met their monthly outgoings, especially with the recent morgage rises and more still to come.

This I feel is the future.

[steve m]

well if thats the future I dont think it will be for me. I used to be a licensed hackney carriage driver (taxi to most), and I ended up working 120 hours a week for a pittance. I certainly wont do it again

[Russell Macdonald]

maybe its just me, but I do a good job for the price I charge. Where I live( yes it is in my profile, I wish others would do the same) the pricing is fairly low, for example a 4 bed detatched is about a tenner. If someone undercuts me and wants to do it for say, £8.00, he's welcome to it. So far most of the houses I do have had people door knocking trying to undercut me, I know all my punters tell me, but so far I haven't lost a single one. If your good at what you do, it doesnt matter what you charge (within reason) .

I agree with Steve. I'm always getting told by my custy's some muppet has knocked on their door & reckon they can offer the same service as me alot cheaper  :. I can't remember the last time i lost one  .

If my custy's want a trustworthy & honest wc, quality & on time every 4 weeks thats me.

If they drop me i dont care but i have a rule, if you drop me or i drop you & i have a few, you wont get back on my round.

Macc

[steve m]

maybe I'm looking at the pricing mullarky all wrong, but as long as I'm happy with my price, the customer is happy withe the price- whats the problem. Whether he cost of cleaning the windows is too high or too low, everyone's happy