[NWH]

I did 2 detatched houses today,they used to take 45mins each trad and there leaded.I did them this morning with the pole and they took me 35mins to do the pair and the quality of work is far better,on houses like this with scrims you can rub till your hearts content you wont beat WFP on these types of windows.

[pjulk]

You must have been half asleep if you got beat by two traditional window cleaners.

I took a local window cleaner out with me friday he has been asking for a while as he wanted to see what WFP was about.
Anyway after 30 minutes he said thats it im getting one of these you got through that last house in less than half the time i would.

Anyway after we finished he went home, had a phone call one hour later he brought a complete trolley setup from andrew mccann, freedom wfp.
He had it all delivered yesterday and was on the phone last night saying he has already done his house but used tap water as he could not wait for the water to purify.

I expect he will be on the phone during the week with questions.

I think if most window cleaners went out with a window cleaner experienced with WFP they would change over.

Paul

[KarlJones]

You wfp guys will do 10 houses daily to my 6 trad. And you need to because apart from petrol (which is an expense we all endure) my costs are as good as zero!

This is correct.  Exactly right.
However (you knew there would be one)  the thing with WFP is it also allows you to do windows and houses for that matter that previously you could not.  It allows you to build a much more compact round in my opinion.  Trad or WFP for me is not really an issue.  I am far to careful with a ladder and far too picky on my own work that it takes me forever using trad methods.

However,  I am sure there are a lot of times we use WFP (downstairs easy access) when there is just no need at all.  And it does hit us in the pockets.

[Clear Vision]

 my costs are as good as zero!            So are mine! my kit has paid for it's self!!!!!

Long live ladders, bucket, blade and scrim         not another one :

Oh and I can get away with a gallon of water a day...Ner        I bet I pay less to produce 1000L of water then you pay to fill your gallon bucket!!!

[geefree]

dont cost that much and my outlay has already been reaped,

and dont forget i was alone and there were two of them

[Mr. S]

And your missus knows you are coming home safe every night, i bet their frames were mingin and their windows looked like they worked as crew on a ship!

They were playin wiv yer! Had it b4 too!

Funny though!

[simon knight]

GUYS GUYS GUYS....Don't get so defensive...I only expressed a tongue in cheek opinion about wfp...or isn't that allowed?

Blimey I thought I woke up this morning in Britain not bloody Red China where I had to be carefull what I said!....mutter mutter mutter

For what it's worth if my round allowed the use of wfp I'd probably give it a go. But in Putney SW London wfp doesn't exist (in 20 yrs I've never seen it) because of severe parking restrictions so I'm forced to work trad.

And guess what? I make a comfortable living and am quite content. Sure there are houses that I can't do....ditto office blocks...so I don't take 'em on...easy!

Safety? Well of course this is always an issue with trad but with a bit of sensible risk assessment I can reduce it to an acceptable level.

Speed? Again wfp would certainly beat me in a race doing fronts only. But back front and inside?... I reckon I'd give ya a run for yer money.

Quality of work?  Trad is consistent....in the wrong hands wfp can be hit or miss.

Earnings potential? Of course wfp users can do twice as many houses as trad per day...but of course you'd need twice as many customers.

Reliability/Maintenance? Ladders, buckets, squeegies and scrims don't break down....nuff said!

Costs? Ex petrol mine are as good as zero!

Long term? As wfp becomes more and more the industry norm in the counties and suburbs the cost of buying will come down...to the extent where a newbie will be able to pick up a kit for £ hundreds rather that £ thousands. Price wars?

In a nutshell guys wfp is a great invention but it ain't the only way windows can be cleaned and it certainly isn't some divine system, ordained by God and thus cannot be questioned!

[Dean Aspects]

Simon Knight - i agree with most of what you say except on the point of quality of work trad being consistant and wfp in the wrong hands not

It does not matter if trad or wfp if your method is wrong then the results will also be wrong
there are probably as many 'cowboy' wfp w/c as trad

And you are right wfp is not divine and most definately can be questioned

Too many people take offence when anyone questions wfp whether they are joking or not
we are all different and therefore have different points of view some valid and some not

wow i'm in a bad mood   



 

[simon knight]

Good point re para's 1 & 2 and I agree.

Rgds

[Sir Squeaky]

It's definately not as consistant working wfp.

I had two houses in the same road today mention the results.
They both said they wouldn't change me, but if they were honest it was better before.

These should be fine now, as they're on the 4th wfp clean.

But after examining them I could see why.
They did have runs from the tops of the pane.
If they open the little top window above while they're still wet you're stuffed, because dirt runs down that you couldn't get to when the window was shut. :

I ended up squeegeeing some bottom windows in that street just to be sure.

Never mind, it was still quicker than doing it all trad.

[Davew]

Your right squeak, wfp is good from a distance but look at anyones window after it's dried and I'm sure you will always find some tale tale spots somewhere. What gets me are the windows already spotted with calcium (limescale) You do the tops, splatter the bottoms then you can't see the marks so you wash as normal and off you go.

[geefree]

That tends to happen more with worn seals squeaky, too ,

there aint a thing you can do.... i know, i have 2 dotted lines each time i do my own lounge window, no matter how many times i do it... still 2 have a vertical dot to dot lines....

and as we clean faster and faster and leave the customers windows wet, we have no way of knowing unless they tell us or we sneak back to every house when dried.

Gary.

[Sir Squeaky]

there aint a thing you can do.... i know, i have 2 dotted lines each time i do my own lounge window, no matter how many times i do it... still 2 have a vertical dot to dot lines....
Gary.

That's so true.
My front window has been dozens of times, but I've also got 2 vertical lines of dots in the middle.

Customers can't be happy about that.
I know I wouldn't be.

[Ian_Giles]

We mustn't forget that trad work will often leave small smears after detailing, or lines from the squeegy when detailing not carried out, or more general smears if you are having to polish with microfibre or scrim.
You think you have done a good job (just as you will with WFP) but then the sun falls in a certain way at a certain angle that highlights these errors.

I agree that if you study the glass closely after it has dried out, on at least a couple of windows you'll find the odd row of little dots.
But you will also find mistakes if you check out your trad work, probably only tiny ones if you are good at what you do.
how often have you done the outside and the customer has asked you to do the insides...only to find you have to pop back outside to pick up on the odd mark or run etc??

I'll also agree that in general, WFP is less consistant than trad by the way.

But I picked up a job that was done previously by a team I know well, and they are good window cleaners too, but they are 100% trad.
They had obviously been rushing, not bothering to detail when they should have done, customer complained about the lines around the window frames, which wouldn't have been there if they had detailed.
she also complained about the state of her frames too, as they never bother to clean the frames, the cobwebs and spider nests had built up to a high level, so even when they cleaned the glass properly, the windows still looked shabby.

As you work your round you learn the windows that aren't suitable for WFP, some you'll never get right, well for me, if they are upstairs then tough, it's like it or lump it cos I won't work off ladders, but I will trad any downstairs windows that just won't come up right with WFP.
Actually, I'll still do them WFP, but I'll nip over them with my squeegee when I've finished the house.

Ian