[julianbiggs]

We are very interested in possibly moving into this area of window cleaning but have some questions if anyone can answer them:

1. Are there any courses we can attend to obtain a recognised abseiling qualification ?

2. Do we legally need a qualification to do window cleaning by abseiling ?

3. Some work will be very high level (ove 120 metres high). What would our insurance cost for 2 people per year ??

4. This is a bit of a weird question but whre do you keep the water ??

5. What would be the going daily rate for 2 people to work 9-5 doing high level window cleaning ??

6. Is there plenty of work out there for this line of work ?

If anyone  has experience of high level window cleaning their input would be much appreciated.

[Moderator David@stives]

This is a good place to start

http://www.irata.org/

[Chris A]

1. An IRATA course is the best
2. yes
3. We pay around £2000 per man yearly
4. In a bucket
5. Around £500 a day depending on where you are
6. yes

[Pat Purcell]

Hi Chris, In answer to the question, "do we legally need a qualification" you answered yes,
What is the qualification and who issues it?

[*foxman]

Actually you don't need a qualification by law. Some companies may require a recognised level of competence but that depends who you work for.

[rosskesava]

I sometimes do roped access with no Irata or any thing else qualifications.

It depends on the company concerned and what they require. There is no actual legal requirments as yet though I'm certain within a few years proper legislation will be in place because of people like a bloke I saw the other week, he was secured to a hand rail. A hand rail is to stop people from falling over the edge, not to stop anyone hanging from it from falling. Der.... there's a big difference in Newton force between the two and not forgetting the intended purpose of the structure and the forces that were meant to be imposed on that structure.

Also, Irata and their 1000 hours for each of the 3 levels is ridiculous to say the least.

If you want to become someone who cuts down trees using a harness and ropes and a chainsaw, then it's 40 hours training courtesy of the local council. Irata charges a bomb for something far less risky.

[*foxman]

Also, Irata and their 1000 hours for each of the 3 levels is ridiculous to say the least.

the 'old boys' network.

[rosskesava]

the 'old boys' network.

Yup.

[rosskesava]

5. Around £500 a day depending on where you are

£500 a day. Yeah right. Dream on. £50 more like or less if your lucky.

Maybe the high fliers who work in Central London on buildings like the Gherkin but for most....£500? Yeah sure.

Also, not forgetting how physical the work is. Try doing more than 2 hours work on ropes at one go. It's knackering. I speak from actuall experience. And don't forget the time getting there, the time filling up the bags with water, the time taking the gallows up in the lift, the time spent assembling it, the time spent finding the person who gives you access to the roof and the time getting that access, and so on.

It's easier to just clean the windows of a house and £ for £ for time spent, if you price right and do the logistics and canvas right, it's more profitable.

Try using wfp on the side of a building 20 floors up. You get my drift?

[Pat Purcell]

Ross, I cant speak to your other points but I find a day of rope work much easier than a day of ladder work

[D woods]

Years ago when rope access was first used in our industry it cost top money. Now days there are so many abseilers they earn the same as a normal window cleaner.

[Chris A]

£500 plus is easily acheivable on the big buildings, i've done some work for a couple of lads on here and I'm sure if you ask them they will tell you what we charge.
Ross, we manage to work all year on the ropes and if you are physically fit you should find it no problem at all once youre used to the harness and we carry keys to all the buildings we work on.
If all the abseiling companies kept their prices high it would be great but like window cleaners on here  there is allways someone who will do it cheaper.  Training, insurance equipment etc costs a lot of money so I don't know how people make it pay charging a couple of hundred quid a day.
We are fully trained insured and use the best equipment available and the lads get paid very well.
BS 7985 states that you should have received formal training before using rope access, Irata is the best training around but there are other quals that are ok.
I wouldn't dream of going on a rope without any training, thats stupid and asking for trouble.
Like I said if you ask Reece who owns Pristine or Lee who owns Aztec they will tell you we charge accordingly  for our skills.

[Chris A]

Try using wfp on the side of a building 20 floors up. You get my drift?

Why would you use wfp 20 floors up 

[Majestic]

Chris
I might have some more work for you , will give you a call

[rosskesava]

Why would you use wfp 20 floors up

It was more a tongue in cheek comment for those say wfp is the answer to all things window cleaning.

Hi Chris

Ross, we manage to work all year on the ropes and if you are physically fit you should find it no problem at all once youre used to the harness and we carry keys to all the buildings we work on

I've just got the odd building I do now and again. Maybe if I did the job everyday from ropes it would get easier but there's not much call around the Brighton area for cleaning windows using ropes.

What you wrote about there is always someone who'll do the job cheaper, I'm afraid I'm one of those as I don't have the overheads of a company and the jobs I have would probably be to small anyway. My largest job is just 7 floors of largish windows and 5 windows wide.

Also, a lot of new building around here have been built taking into account how the windows will be cleaned. I don't mean Canary Wharf type structures but more modest buildings. A lot now have safety bolts and windows that swivel.

With regards training, I agree 100%, you'd have to be a complete lunatic to do roped access with none but believe it or not, I know of 2 window cleaners who work together who sometimes use ropes with training from a book.

[Majestic]

We are doing a job cherry picker  at the moment and the picker wont reach some of the windows, I was asked by the site forman if I could use a WFP to reach about 60ft  from out of a picker    H&S when it suits. I have mentioned rope access, they are going to get back to me

[windowwashers]

We are doing a job cherry picker  at the moment and the picker wont reach some of the windows, I was asked by the site forman if I could use a WFP to reach about 60ft  from out of a picker    H&S when it suits. I have mentioned rope access, they are going to get back to me

Do you offer rope access then John ??

[Majestic]

Hi Ian
Its not something that I advertise but if I am asked I allways tell them I know someone  and give them Chris's number.Like the job

I am on at the moment, because the picker cant reach some of the windows they are on about scaffolding out the hole side of a building.

[Chris A]

Ross
    I'm in Manchester and there is a lot of new buildings going up so competition is very fierce. We still get a lot of work from companies who demand a high level of competance but unfortunately lose at lot more to uninsured, untrained lads who are working 12 hours a day for £50. Most of these lads I've worked with over the years and are not willing to change, but surely they will come unstuck one day.
When I said £500 per day ,that is for 2 men, so when you take wages, travelling, insurance and equipment costs from this then you are not left with much profit.
I priced a job against one of the big companies round here and came out £15000 a year dearer so I don't know how they do it apart from doing a crap job.

[*foxman]

There seems to be good abseilers and there are good window cleaners, it is suprisingly hard to find both in one! Most are from a rock climbing background and are painfully slow but a good window cleaner on the ropes can earn 200 a day quite easily down here and thats at level one with a 3 supervising