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Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« on: May 03, 2007, 10:28:08 pm »
Thinking about one time in the future to buy a wfp trolley system for some 3 story work that is a pain.

can anyone recommend a good one that will work well, wont break, doesn't look cheap, and generally isn't rubbish. just tell me what's a good set up with out confusing me about varistream etc. i don't do wfp and just want it to work when i want it too

oh and what are the pros and cons please

Thanks much appriciated

East coast window cleaning Services

  • Posts: 1458
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2007, 10:30:23 pm »
Never really seen the point in these but like you say if you only want it now again then its better then laying out loads of hard earned cash on a big sysytem that dont get used
P&R Window Cleaning

brett walker

  • Posts: 1943
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2007, 10:33:21 pm »

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 10:37:06 pm »
pros and cons people pros and cons

are they going to do the job properly?

SherwoodCleaningSe

  • Posts: 2368
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 10:42:00 pm »
You can pick a back pack up for about 200 and a 30ft pole for 150ish then if you don't want to spend much more having a friend that can give you the pure water helps otherwise it's at least another 300 on water purification gear.

Once you've used one for a few months though you'll not want to get the ladders off of the car.

Simon.

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 10:45:59 pm »
is an RO system best on the trolley or resin,

i dunno about not going back, i like looking at what ive done, and like heights and going up ladders,

SherwoodCleaningSe

  • Posts: 2368
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 10:52:10 pm »
Only problem with a system that isn't van mounted is the first cleans.  You get through several times the amount of water on the first clean.  That means that you'll be running back and forth to the car to refill.

After that though they are brilliant.  The freedom trolly is good so I hear the shurflow back pack is smaller but brill.  A lot of guys with van mounts still have these pieces of kit because sometimes they are better suited to the job.

If you have a trolly then it's best to produce the water at home, so no ro or di on the trolly.  I have a van system and don't have ro or di in it it's all at home.

Simon.

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2007, 10:56:35 pm »
hmm

how much water can they carry, because im trad, got my bits and pieces in the back of the estate, no room for water tanks,

i just need it for the odd window here and there, that is above con roofs etc, and 3rd story that i don't fancy doing.

the trolley appealed because i could fit it on the back seats and use it when i want without needing much water,

got a new loads of new build down the road from me which ill prob get 50% of cos ive made friends with the marketing lady and some a 3 storey town houses

pjulk

Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2007, 11:00:15 pm »
Quote
are they going to do the job properly?

Yes they will exactly the same job as a van system.

I started with an omnitrolly when i changed to WFP and it was excellent.
The only downside is carrying 25ltr water containers about and carrying them to the van each day as they are pretty heavy and then you have to rearrange them in the van a few times during the day so you are able to get to them all.

Now use a 650 ltr van system but still have my trolley and still use it for some of the out of the way jobs.

Trolleys are a good introduction to WFP but i would say if you get a trolley and have a van put a water tank in it to fill the trolley up its so much easier.
Unless you go for a trolley that takes water barrels.

Quote
how much water can they carry
Depends which one you get

Omnitrolleys either 50 or 125 ltrs
APS 70 ltrs
Freedom 25 ltrs

Paul

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2007, 11:02:37 pm »
how long does 25ltr last?

brightnclean

  • Posts: 592
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 11:13:34 pm »
Surprisingly enough around 30 mins. It has a built in flow controller so the pump isnt working flat out. 4 ltrs per min is a very high flow rate. I find around 1 ltr per minute to be plenty to do a fast and good job.  In that time I could do 4 average semis upstairs no problem. I use both a van mount and the Freedom trolley. I would think it would suit you very well. Its very well built. Looks very pro. It folds down very compact and is very easy to move around. No real cons that I can think of. Also you dont have to refill it as you go. You just put another full container on when needed.

mark dew

  • Posts: 2901
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 11:18:32 pm »
cons of a trolley:
limited water capacity
quite heavy to lift in and out and manouvere in really tight spaces


pros;
you learn to use less water very quickly
no snagging of hoses
little or no plant or ornament damage from knocking things over with hose
you can turn power on/off immediately
cheaper than setting up a van

That's about it really.

I have a freedom trolley and a 400 litre van mount with 100psi surflo pump, no varistream and 100m of microbore. And a submersible pump in water tank.
I use loads of water with van mount and rarely use it at all now.
I find i am quicker round with a trolley as well and i always know now when i don't have enough water for another job.
I spend £20 on diesel a week now, where i used to spend £30 because i was coming home to refill a couple of times a week.
I'm very happy with the freedom trolley. It suits my work, looks good. Been worked hard for a year now and still looks professional.
One thing i would recommend if buying a trolley is when you buy poles for it, get an extra 15 metres of hose with the pole instead of the tiny little length they (pole suppliers) supply with it as standard. (18ft pole = 50ft hose)
This means you can leave the trolley in 1 place and work away from it.
The 6mm pole hose also wraps around the handle nicely when not in use.
As said, try and get a water tank in back with a submersible pump to refill your container. Makes life much easier.

I don't have a backpack yet but i'm sure all the above applies to them as well, except they are considerably cheaper than trolleys.

ps can do 2 side by side 3 bed semis with 25l of water.

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 11:20:58 pm »
can i fill it up from customers taps as i need it?

because i only need it for a few jobs, im trad in all aspects and will continue to be until i get enough 3 story work to finance a wfp trolley.

i mean on some houses there is one window on from at 3rd story and on back 2 velux on 3rd story.

what this about the tank. where do you store it

can i not get a resin filter thing on the trolley?

M & C Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 1581
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 12:56:12 am »
Quote
i dunno about not going back, i like looking at what ive done, and like heights and going up ladders,

Oh to be a young lad again. At your age Alex I felt the same and at 46 still do to some degree. However, I am now feeling the wear & tear of climbing up and down a ladder for thirty years and I know numerous other wc-ners in the Basildon and Essex areas, all around my age give or take a few years almost all of whom are feeling the same effects as me. It's got to be worth giving the WFP a go. It'll be a lot less wear & tear on the ol' legs. I'm looking to go WFP later this year if all goes well with my recovery from my recent ankle op. Probably will go for the 'freedom trolley'  WFP-ing the tops and tradding the downs.

Mark

SherwoodCleaningSe

  • Posts: 2368
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2007, 06:24:34 am »
You could get a resin filter for the trolly I've seen one that comes with is.  Or you could get a resin filter and plug it straight into an outside tap and fill some container when you are out and about.

A w/c up this way uses only DI to filter water and it cost him about £85 for about 2700 ltrs of water.  Thats a lot of money in my view but then if it helps you to get the work it's worth it.

What ever you buy for wfp even a resin filter to go on a tap you'll find you can use on an expanded system in the long rung. ;)

Your looking at about £90 for empy vessel and then £80 to fill with DI and a few quid for hose connectors.  Find out what your tds is on the tap water.

Simon.

Paul Coleman

Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2007, 07:00:05 am »
can i fill it up from customers taps as i need it?

because i only need it for a few jobs, im trad in all aspects and will continue to be until i get enough 3 story work to finance a wfp trolley.

i mean on some houses there is one window on from at 3rd story and on back 2 velux on 3rd story.

what this about the tank. where do you store it

can i not get a resin filter thing on the trolley?

Alex.
We live in a hard water area.  It would be possible to use a trolley with a resin container on it (I do actually have one of those) but it would work out very expensive with resin. To give you an idea, the TDS (impurity level) of water around our way is about 200 - 250 parts per million.  Basically this means that a 25 kilo bag of resin (costing maybe £70 with VAT and postage) could have about 2,000 litres of tap water through it before it expires.  Bearing in mind the fact that my trolley only has a 1 litre resin container attached, if I were using tap water in the trolley, I would have to mess around changing the resin quite frequently (every 2,000/25 litres = 80 litres).  So changing the resin every 80 litres would be about every 1 and a half trolley loads.  Personally, I feel that although this is quite possible, it would be impractical.
I only have a resin container on my trolley because my water purity (after the RO) was anything up to about 15 TDS at one time so I wanted the resin on board to polish it off.  These days, I have a refillable resin container attached to the RO so I produce pure water into the tank - making the resin container on the trolley mostly redundant.

Water usage on the first cleans is usually very high.  It needs to be in order to give yourself a reasonable chance of doing a decent job.  With higher water usage, obviously the resin usage goes up.
If it's only the odd window here and there that you need to do, then using tap water in a trolley with a resin vessel could work.
Another option could be to get pure water from someone who already has some.  If you only need a bit once in a while, you could get yourself some containers and I could give you some.  If you store it for more than a week or so though, be aware that it should be stored at somewhere under 20 degrees C due to legionella forming.
Although a trolley can be heavy to lift, I just use a board as a ramp - much easier !!

Another alternative for the first cleans :-  It's definitely easier with a van mount due to water usage.  I could do the third storey bits for you meaning that you would need to only follow up with the easier, less water intensive cleans afterwards so that your water would last a lot longer.
The trolley I have is called the Omnitrolley "Classic" with DI - see:-

 http://www.omnipole.com/omnitrolley2002300dpi.jpg

The one I have has a 1 litre DI vessel seated just above the handle.  The handle is detachable if you need more room.  It has served me well but I wouldn't use it to "make" pure water though due to the hardness of water in our area. I just fill it with purified water (no more than 004 TDS) and use it on the odd job as needed.

Alternatively, there is this one:-

http://www.omnipole.com/Omnitrolley_files/New%2050%20Trolley.jpg

I did try one of these briefly at the seller's yard.  It is cheaper than the "Classic" and, it has a 30 metre hosereel on it which can be VERY useful.  It has no DI on it but if you were filling with purified water that wouldn't matter anyway.  The only reason I didn't buy was my bank balance.

They are both Omnipole trolleys.  They are the only ones I've used.  You may find that there is a trolley more suitable for your needs but I am only able to tell you about the ones I've tried myself.
You can get an Omnipole trolley which is a bit cheaper and rely on getting your pure water from someone (bearing in mind that I might not always be available when you need water), or you can stick a DI on the trolley meaning frequent resin changes and purchases, or you can pay rather more for your trolley and get an RO with it to produce your own pure water such as with the Freedom trolley (never tried that one but others seem to recommend it highly).
Also, I don't think it's a good idea to rely on customers' external taps anyway.  You can't rely on them - especially in Winter when many people isolate them to avoid freeze ups.  

Paul Coleman

Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 07:09:53 am »
cons of a trolley:
limited water capacity
quite heavy to lift in and out and manouvere in really tight spaces


pros;
you learn to use less water very quickly
no snagging of hoses
little or no plant or ornament damage from knocking things over with hose
you can turn power on/off immediately
cheaper than setting up a van

That's about it really.

I have a freedom trolley and a 400 litre van mount with 100psi surflo pump, no varistream and 100m of microbore. And a submersible pump in water tank.
I use loads of water with van mount and rarely use it at all now.
I find i am quicker round with a trolley as well and i always know now when i don't have enough water for another job.
I spend £20 on diesel a week now, where i used to spend £30 because i was coming home to refill a couple of times a week.
I'm very happy with the freedom trolley. It suits my work, looks good. Been worked hard for a year now and still looks professional.
One thing i would recommend if buying a trolley is when you buy poles for it, get an extra 15 metres of hose with the pole instead of the tiny little length they (pole suppliers) supply with it as standard. (18ft pole = 50ft hose)
This means you can leave the trolley in 1 place and work away from it.
The 6mm pole hose also wraps around the handle nicely when not in use.
As said, try and get a water tank in back with a submersible pump to refill your container. Makes life much easier.

I don't have a backpack yet but i'm sure all the above applies to them as well, except they are considerably cheaper than trolleys.

ps can do 2 side by side 3 bed semis with 25l of water.

I like the bit about the longer pole hose Mark.
Although it wouldn't be relevant for Alex (no van mount), what I do is to use a piece of ordinary hose on the odd occasions I use the trolley.  I have a length of about 10 metres which I use to connect the van mount to the hosereel (to span footpaths).  When using the trolley, I just take that 10 metre bit with me.

Biscute

  • Posts: 467
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2007, 07:23:33 am »
Alex in my opinion this is the best way to WFP, I think that the prefreedom trolley is best. The pros well out weigh the cons, for instance once you have done at the end of the day you just take it out and you have a van with space to do other things. Also you are less likely to spend money on van wear and tear such as better breaks new clutch and tyers. The cons are that you dont ave as long battery life and you dont have as much water, but for the work you discribed i think it would be a good step.
Dont argue with a retard, they will just pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Alex Wingrove

  • Posts: 1435
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2007, 08:56:08 am »
hmmm so many things to consider

how much space is needed then for a Ro system with a 200l tank,  can an ro system make pure water on the go while im working

Biscute

  • Posts: 467
Re: WFP Trolly, Pros And Cons
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2007, 10:00:49 am »
ther is a cheaper way m8 do what i do, i have my RO unit in my toilet wich fil;ls a 1000L tank outside. The tds is normaly about005 once it comes out ther RO unit then i run it through a DI vessel and store it in 25L tanks with a sub pump. Then all you have to do it put the 25 L tanks in the van with the trolly and thats job done. At the end of the day i take it all out and ther is no mess in the back.
Dont argue with a retard, they will just pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.