[Dean Aspects]

have to agree with vince green
i have just paid off my employee after 6 months of stress
this week just gone has been such a relief not having to think about if the other guy is doing the work etc..

the stress is something i could not handle it was debilatating at times
if you want to get staff in then go for it but be aware of the downsides and that only you work as hard as you do

my own experience of emloying has put me off completely and now i am in the process of creaming of the best work and replacing the crap with better work in a different town

keep it simple

[Paul Coleman]

My advice is DON'T do it. Far too many people see this as the natural direction to take and its not. Its the road to perditition.

I don't know you but I have been reading your posts for a long time and I have a fair idea of how you think. In many ways you think like me, you work hard but you value your independance.
One of the great advantages of this business is its simplicity. Once you start going down the staff and VAT route you lose that simplicity and you lose your independance.

And staff are a headache, they don't have your commitment, ( why should they ? ) and they will let you down.

Think long and hard about other options. Can you refine your existing round? put up prices? drop the rubbish?

One approach that might work is what I call the Superman / Clark Kent approach.

You have built up a good round with lots of nice customers at "reasonable" prices and you are Mr Nice Guy = Clark Kent. Its all very comfortable.

So start a separate round somewhere else charging top prices where you are Mr Hard Faced Business Man. = Superman, your alta ego.

Its strange but you can lead this double life even though you couldn't bring yourself to apply the same practices on your  existing round. Then when your start to build up your new round you can give away or drop your old customers. If you don't want to drop them tell them their windows are still pretty good after however many weeks it has been and suggest you extend the time between visits.
Most customers jump at this and it frees up time for your Superman round.

A lot of truth in what you say.  I came to this realisation a while back too.  Since I started morphing into the "businessman" I've realised that customers who have been with me for quite a while cannot think of me that way because that is not the image I've tried to project in the past.  However, with newer customers, it works a lot better.  Higher prices and more businesslike.  I've learned over the years NOT to get too friendly with the customers.  I find it better that way.

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Thanks guys for your replies.

I Have decided it's down to understanding what type of person I am and what I want out of life!

 First of all thanks to the guys who E-Mailed me with alternative methods of using workers - sel-employed.  To be honest, if I were to expand I would like anyone working for me to be Employed and under my control.

In these replies ther have been 2 sides to the opinoins.

1. Trevor and David Morris - who are defenately for employing

2. Vince, Aspects and Shiner - who are not for employing.

I noticed 2 different attitudes

The one thing I can remember when I first made that step was that all of a sudden I had this complex, desire, understanding that I HAD to make it work and that I had responsibilities and believe it or not, I actually enjoyed the pressure.

the stress is something i could not handle it was debilatating at times

When I pin point WHY I go out to work every week, it's simple; to pay the bills AND get shot of my mortgage!!

Now up to 2 - 3 years ago I wasn't doing that - The mortgage was GROWING BIGGER

Now I am breaking even - everything is being paid - but there is no spare to knock of the mortgage
That's where I want to be ; paying the bills AND a lump sum of profit in the business to draw out at the end of the year to pay of the mortgage

In order to acheave this, David has to go that extra mile, move out of his comfort zone :

Now there are 2 sides to me:
(Vince got it right!!)

1 The business man who has many times made plans for his business.

2. The worker who, like all workers, wants to do as little as possible for as much as possible.

What I need to do is put the "Business man" in charge and find a way of encourageing the "Worker" to work that extra mile.

So.........How do I do this?

I would appreciate any ideas you may have and indeed use yourselves to self motivate your daily working.

Thanks

David

[Clive McDonald]

A very interesting thread with inteligent well thought out replies from all perspectives. Your summary and evaluation was also very good.

About the employee side, I think you need some luck and someone you can trust.

What did wonder thought is how much of a businessman are you really? Have you got the very best eqiupment to do the job?

I have never regreted investing in new or nearly new vans, and obtaining the best equipment.(I mean within reason).(my wc exper is limited but I have been successfull at other things)

Is their room for investment and working smarter?

[Londoner]

There is another side to it, you can employ people and end up working longer hours but still making LESS money for yourself at the end of the day. Its not a guaranteed thing that you will make more money.

A friend of mine is a plumber / heating engineer and he had four blokes working for him. It the end he got rid of them and just works on his own. He couldn't get anything done before, he spent all his time sorting out their problems.

[Dean Aspects]

well thought out mr salkeld all good reasonings
my experience started out well but ended up too stressful for me
you might be lucky and get someone who is a great worker 
last week and so far this week i am only 25% down on what two of us were earning
having said that i had just bought another van and kitted it out wfp only got 2 working days with the other guy using it  but it did feel good sending him out and getting the extra work done who knows if it had worked out better i would have probably employed another person and gone on from there
dont let a couple of people put you off from employing try it or yourself
and good luck

[Paul Coleman]

Thanks guys for your replies.

I Have decided it's down to understanding what type of person I am and what I want out of life!

 First of all thanks to the guys who E-Mailed me with alternative methods of using workers - sel-employed.  To be honest, if I were to expand I would like anyone working for me to be Employed and under my control.

In these replies ther have been 2 sides to the opinoins.

1. Trevor and David Morris - who are defenately for employing

2. Vince, Aspects and Shiner - who are not for employing.

I noticed 2 different attitudes

The one thing I can remember when I first made that step was that all of a sudden I had this complex, desire, understanding that I HAD to make it work and that I had responsibilities and believe it or not, I actually enjoyed the pressure.

the stress is something i could not handle it was debilatating at times

When I pin point WHY I go out to work every week, it's simple; to pay the bills AND get shot of my mortgage!!

Now up to 2 - 3 years ago I wasn't doing that - The mortgage was GROWING BIGGER

Now I am breaking even - everything is being paid - but there is no spare to knock of the mortgage
That's where I want to be ; paying the bills AND a lump sum of profit in the business to draw out at the end of the year to pay of the mortgage

In order to acheave this, David has to go that extra mile, move out of his comfort zone :

Now there are 2 sides to me:
(Vince got it right!!)

1 The business man who has many times made plans for his business.

2. The worker who, like all workers, wants to do as little as possible for as much as possible.

What I need to do is put the "Business man" in charge and find a way of encourageing the "Worker" to work that extra mile.

So.........How do I do this?

I would appreciate any ideas you may have and indeed use yourselves to self motivate your daily working.

Thanks

David

It's not that I'm against employing.  I don't rule it out for the future .  It's just that I don't feel that I would be ready for that for some time.  I feel that it would be stressful for me.  I already have a number of stress factors in my life and don't want to add to that burden.  However, I do see a time (several years from now) when I will have resolved many of my current stress factors and there will be room for other things that may be a bit stressful.  Employing a person or people may be one of those things.
Until then, my first business goal is to maximise my financial potential as a sole trader.

[poleman]

Hi All,

I have been W/C now for 20 years and have come to the point, as I have many times before : : Where I am finding it difficult to do any more but ther is loads of work out there.
"Take on staff " I hear you call.
But HOW do you make it pay

How do you handle the old Vodka And Tonic I've never had to worry about VAT but if I had a van and 2 staff then me doing a bit of my own I would be over the Vat limit and have to add 17.5% to my prices

Then theres the tax liability on a van

How DO you go about expanding and taking on Staff

Any Advice appreciated

David Salked

SUBY out the work

Andy

[choice.clean]

i have the answers you need if you wish to contact me i will let you know some tips.

[premier window cleaners]

id be interested in those tips choice.clean

[williamx]

i have the answers you need if you wish to contact me i will let you know some tips.

Don't be shy, let everyone know, that the point of the forum.

[choice.clean]

i was reluctant to put on forum having been ripped apart before by others but here is how i do it
1. collect all customers by standing order in advance 3 months at a time = cashflow problems solved i.e. no panic over the wages
we phone most of our customers the night before and offer a free reclean if not staisfied with clean. result is no collecting by men just get on with the job
2. set up 2 companies one ltd one sole trader (this will get the critics going but you'd be surprised how many do it) even the representative fom the federation of small business said that was how i worked too! it is legite ask a good accountant and if he don't say its ok ask another.
3. result is you can up turnover without vat problem.
4. use iris payroll to do paye its simple and work is minimal
we only use wfp and carry 1000 ltr in a swb transit.
men get holiday pay company uniforms and we can employ with confidence if they leave they couldn't take the customers as they are tied in to us.
SOME WILL CRITICISE SOME OF MY ADVICE BUT I NOW WORK 2 DAYS PER WEEK ON THE TOOLS AND WORK ON MY BUSINESS NOT IN IT
its not always easy but i do get to take my 4 year old to school and pick him up every day and can take more time off.

[NWH]

How many blokes do you have working for you.

[paulstevens]

hi Choice. Clean the words "HE WHO DARES WINS" springs to mind good luck to you if it works for you

[choice.clean]

i employ 2 men on 4 day week each

[shammy davis jnr]

i employ five and its like anything else you  cant suffer fools gladly have a defined roll as the gaffer and if they dont come up to scratch in a month punt them ,
its like an empty bus you cant carry any passengers ,pay them well increase it over a period of time respect your guys that have stuck by you over the hard times and they will bring on the young guns and mold them you know what i mean listen son you cant do that our the gaffer will sack you he did it to the last guy stay on the ball and ill have a word in six moths in the gaffers ear and say your doing brill
when he does shell the guy a £25 pay rise this inturn keeps his head up and knows that if he works well he will be up with the big boys in no time   
dont get me wrong i went through 12 staff in a year in the early days
keep the bar high and reward good work
and learn to see through the lazy arses within about 2 weeks
and dont be frightened to discard the lazy
remember its your name on every window they clean if there not going to do it to your standard  p45 them
and remember sky walker your incharge of your own destiny lol all the best mate and good luck
davis

[Alex Wingrove]

Once you start going down the staff and VAT route you lose that simplicity and you lose your independance.

i think that what we should all keep in mind, this job is simple, go upto clean it, move on,

i think we forget that something